doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Old Rust Bluing Technique

Hi fellas,

I'd like to try doing a set of barrels myself. An old English shotgun has lovely deep black barrels. I'm trying to research the details of this process.

Basically I know that the barrels are polished first and then a rust liquid is applied and then the barrels are left or to speed things up are placed in a sweat box. Then lightly carded down and then boiled in plain old boiling water for 10 minutes to make the rust go brown...then back to step 1 and repeat until you get the black you desire.

Can anyone aloborate and also give me any views on what the rusting solution is. Can one use the same solution that one uses for browning barrels? I assume so. Also I've used logwood powder to darken browned barrels do I just use some of this in the boiling water...views/processes lovingly accepted!


Cheers
T

If you want rust browned barrels, then you don't boil them. The boiling turns the rust orange/brown to black.

I usually boil after the second rusting, boil, then card, then dip in the etchant for 5 seconds, repeat until the desired color of the barrels. That could be 5 rusting or 10 rustings.

I thought English guns were browned not blackened/blue, but if blackened, then 5 minutes would do in the boiling water.

I have used Radio Shack's circuit board etching solution. I mixed it 15% etchant to 85% distilled water to bring out the Damascus pattern. Not sure if that is available to you there.

The logwood dye is used to enhance the blackened barrels and from what I have read, the amount of solution to use is when you cannot see through the water.

Hi, yep.

These are not damascus but steel barrels. I want them black (or blued in the USA). They should be a deep black. Ferric chloride appears to be the stuff to use to rust the barrels...I just wondered about the boiling part for how long and whether it's a good idea to use logwood in the boiling process.

T

Get some Laurel Mountain http://www.laurelmountainforge.com/barrel_brown.htm

This makes a great deep blue/black when used properly. I have done a number of barrels and love it!

Hi JJ, trouble is I'm in the UK can't find it here...anyone know a vendor in the UK that can sell me this?

Otherwise is the browning solution I have similar I wonder...and what about Ferric Chloride?

T

Your first stop should be to get a copy of Angier's 'Firearm Blueing and Browning'. In there you will find a huge amount of information on solutions (100's), preparation, finishing et al.
Some of the information is a little out of date (published in 1936) but with a little care most of it is very useful.
Many of the modern techniques like use of log-wood and etching with ferric chloride are barely mentioned but we can thank our American friends for most of the development of these 'new' methods!
In your first post you had the basic process pretty much sussed with the exception that you boil BEFORE carding.
There is no limit to how long you can boil for but as Angier states, everything has done what it is gonna do in 5-10 minutes.
A sweat box is not really required unless you are going into production, room temperature, a damp towel laid below and a simple tent to stop any airborn grease getting on to barrels is all that is required.
Many will argue about the need to fully plug the tubes. Personally I don't but I do make sure that they are perfectly dried inside after boiling, that no salt solution gets inside and I do lightly polish the bores with 800 W&D when I have finished the whole process.
Which solutions? Take your pick, they nearly all work pretty well.
For the record I use B12a page 80 for browning Damascus and C10k page 83 for blacking but they are pretty much interchangeable.
Degreasing: I use whiting, never solvents.
I allow 24 hours per rusting pass and reckon on having an excellent deep black in 7-10 passes and a good brown in 15-30 passes (but that is another story!).
Have fun!

Toby. Many thanks. I've got some of Peter Dysons browning solution and another browning solution from a gunsmith mate..I wonder if those will do.

Are you saying that you boil the barrels without being plugged and then dry them after each boiling session?

I do have the Angiers book but a friend has it for reading! Doh! Will check the pages out you suggest my friend and many thanks for the reply.

T

T,
Ferric chloride is not what you want for a rusting agent.It's an etchant. I too don't bother with plugging the bores to boil. I simply make certain they are dried immediately after boiling, and run a little fine steel wool down the bores when the job is done.
Jim

As I said, pretty any 'blacking/browning' solution will do the trick. Apparently you can even use good ol' sodium chloride solution but I have never tried it.
Most of these solutions are real 'bucket chemistry' and providing you don't try and push the speed of reaction by heating or steaming, keep a close eye on the the first few passes to check for pitting (too violent a reaction) and are patient, a pretty good finish is easy to achieve.
First few passes can look very blotchy and as long as the barrels have been thoroughly degreased (and kept that way!) this will even out by about half way through and be invisible by the end.
Biggest problem is bleeding ribs. Even a tiny pin hole can ruin a length of the barrel blacking beside it and the only real solution is to get the ribs relaid. There are a few bodges (loctite run into the hole comes to mind) but I have never had great success with them.

I put a plug in each end of one barrel to hold it by but never both in the same barrel, this way the hot water gets to all areas inside and out.
And, yes, I dry the inside of the barrels immediately after each boiling session. Push through a couple of suitable sized bits of kitchen roll, quick blast with a heat gun down the tubes and away you go.