doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Strength of 1895 Winchester?

“the Russian cartridge has a larger rimmed footprint and so would exert less pressure per square inch on the breech face”

I believe that the force is calculated by taking the inside diameter of the cartridge in square inches times pressure not the outside diameter of the rim.

Although the powders are obsolete it gives one an idea of what they working with back in the day.

Re-read J. D. Steele's post again and pay particular attention to the part about checking for excessive headspace. I once had that situation occur with an M-98 VZ24 rebarreled to .22-250. On the third shot with a fairly mild load several grains below max, I had a complete head seperation and was totally blind for about 20-30 minutes and had very blurry vision for some time after. Trust me, a lot goes through your mind when you are blinded. Paul Mausers' improved bold shroud on the M-98 which helped deflect gas from the shooters eye is probably the only reason I can see to write this. Safety glasses became standard equipment in my range box.

Some years back I read a report with photos of a 95 in 30-06 badly damaged by firing a 7.9 mm German military cartridge. IIRC, the article was written by Hatcher. The photo showed a rifle with bulged side rails & a lot of other damage. IIARC, the photo showed the breech block blown clear of the rifle.

In the article, the writer said that the Winchester engineers tried & succeeded in duplicating the damage with several 95s chambered for 30-06. The writer also said that this experiment was a key part of the decision to discontinue the 95 in 30-06. Sharpe tells the same story, sans photo, in "The Rifle in America".

If this extreme (but repeatable) experiment (with very extreme headspace + an over-sized bullet) damaged these rifles to that extent, it seems not unreasonable to think that repeated loads of somewhat lesser intensity might lead to observable damage.

IMHO, all of Joe's advice is correct.

Does this include modern single shot Winchester 1895's? What about the modern Browning B78's or 1885's?

There is no such thing as a Winchester Model 1895 single shot.

Sorry I wasn't clearer in my analysis. The Russian cartridge does have a slightly larger ID in the powder chamber but mainly the larger footprint of the rim serves to more widely distribute the load over a larger area of the breech face. Similar to a woman's stiletto heel versus a wide wedge heel, the load of the 30-06 is concentrated on and transferred by the smaller case head area while the larger rim area of the Russian case will tend to 'float' more on the breech face. The force differential is negligible but it's still there. This somewhat confuses the issue but I still hold to my opinion.

This is a gray area in my mind, i.e. the actual force exerted upon the breech face by different-shaped cartridge cases is difficult for me to evaluate precisely. The initial tendency is to simply use the cartridge's internal powder chamber floor area in a straightforward calculation of straight-line rearward force, but to me this is misleading. The total rearward force is also increased by the curved shape of the internal powder chamber's floor-to-wall transition which applies more force in an ever-decreasing manner as the radius increases beyond the powder chamber ID. IOW as the force vector gradually changes from rearward to sideways, the additional rearward force is gradually decreased as the angle changes and the area widens.

Then there's the question of case taper, chamber wall surface finish, presence of oil, brass hardness, etc. Been a LONG time since I had to use the calculus I learned oh so long ago and I've long since erased my memory tapes so I quit calculating(grin).

My old Physics prof is a shooter and is still kicking, guess I should call him!
Regards, Joe

1895 is a lever action, 1885 is a single shot. Modern rifles of both types are much stronger than the originals but it doesn't seem to matter with the single shots since the old high walls are plenty strong anyway.
Regards, Joe

Abba, Du Sprechit Deutche Gary??- Ein Umlat fur Die "e", Ja?? German-Germane-- Vas ist disse schiess/schiessen??

The question, as I read it, had to do with a lever action Winchester (one of Teddy's favorites I have read) and the only one of that era with a non-tubular magazine- not the first for a smokeless powder load, that would be the M1894 in .30 WCF- aka- 30-30 (cal. 30 with a .308 NBD) and a smokeless powder load equal to 30 grains of black powder)

Once again, unrelated drivel from "run with the mouth" who is way over proud of his knowledge, wants everyone to know he has it, an interjects it when it's completely immaterial.

Germane= relevant, pertinent. Running on about M71's and G&H sporters is neither relevant or pertinent (germane) to a discussion of M95 strengths/weaknesses. But, alas, I fall prey to yet another internet know-it-all. When will I learn?

On the other hand, thanks to the informative replies posted by others, I learned something about a subject I had largely ignored. Thank you.