doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Best entry level in a NEW side by side

i would take lightly choked 16ga Winchester Model 12 with 26" barrel over ANY entry levels sxs.

I see left of center, loose Foxes every time I go to the gunshop.
You can't tell me that an 86 year of Fox is suitable for nitro mags, or steel shot. It may be able to get by with some light target load, but you are limiting yourself if you get an 86 year old gun. Let's face it, this board is dominated by collectors and a Fox sterlingworth is a great beginner gun for a collector, but for shooter who just wants a good entry level gun, it's best to get soemthing that doen't have to be pampered.

Remember, boys, I specified NEW. I have six or seven vintage American hardware store guns that I love. But in a NEW gun my choices still stand and I've heard that CZ customer service is excellent. Also, for what it may be worth, I've been inside of a Bobwhite and dare say it is as well finished and put together as any vintage FIELD GRADE American double, excepting a Parker. And once you've seen all the parts a Parker has it will diminish any desire to buy another. Chops

I have the S&W and CZ Bobwhite and Ringneck.

S&W with prairie chickens from SD last weekend.


S&W with Sage Grouse from MT Two weekends ago.


CZ Bobwhite and Ringneck with some snows from this spring on my farm.


CZ Bobwhite in KS from this last Jan.


Bobwhite with ND Ruffed Grouse from last winter


CZ Bobwhite with opening day pheasant in ND.


I have killed a pile of birds with the Bobwhite over the last 6 years. I have English and American doubles, but for a good servicable field gun the Bobwhite is hard to beat.

I just purchased the S&W this summer and have enjoyed shooting it. It has way better fit and finish, but it was also more money. So far I have about a 1,000 rounds through it with no problems. I shot a limit of sharptail yesterday after work with it. Very nice for carrying long distances when hunting prairie birds. It is the only negative thing I have to say about the Bobwhite. They are a tad heavy for that kind of hunting which is why I bought the S&W. If the CZ was not dependable I wouldn't be taking with to Africa next summer bird hunting. IMO the CZ is better than the Bakail. Probably not mechanically any better, but finish they certainly are. Plus they are stocked decently, not made to look like a 2x4 with barrels.

IM,
Well put. I have had my manhood questioned EVERY time I report similar findings with Fox guns on this site-there have been several photos of blown up Fox guns here, not just barrels, which is usually an obstruction, but, frames cracked through the pins on the side.
Stand by for some of the same.
I get a creepy feeling when I handle Japanese or Turkish guns-it is just me, and I take full responsibility for it, and hope no-one else is troubled by it. Me, I'd keep saving and go Uggy model 30 if new was of primary concern (it 'ain't, and I bought a 1972 vintage American Imports 1302 that needed some love from Cole Haugh to be fitted to me-I fully expect to take the gun to Spain early next year for some driven bird shooting, and will have WAY less than 1K into a fitted,A&D non ejector, double trigger, boxlock, with a hidden Purdey third fastener, magnum proof, and a spare set of strikers and tool for same) before I bought anything from Turkey.
Old, used, double guns spook me. Especially really old used doubles. I don't agree with much PJ puts up, but, really old used pump guns give me no such misgivings.


Best,
Ted

I get a creepy feeling when I hand over good American dollars for anything new. Which is why I buy used guns. And cheap ones if I can find them.

The CZs look fine to me, but they'll depreciate faster than a used car. And never be worth what you paid for them. Whereas a good used gun MAY appreciate. May not, too, if you pay too much for it from jump street.

If it must be new and I planned to keep it for life, (i.e. not harvest my investment except through time) I'd get a CZ on my budget out of necessity. But "new" is a restricting requirement. I think there are so many good used guns, I doubt I've give CZs a second look.

As for Japanese guns, my Win 23 is a fine shotgun, well-finished and strong. I'm not against mixed heritage, as you can see.

Ted, I used to get that same feeling about Japanese guns because I am old enough to remember all the stamped tin trash they exported after the war (WW-2) but I'd put my Miroku Mod.500 against any of the nice field grade American vintage guns. I had that same feeling about Turkish guns as the first Huglu guns I saw ten-15 years ago were TERRIBLE, slanted ribs, horrible fitting, etc. However since DeHann and CZ brought them into their lines, I have seen no more junk Huglus. JM2C. Chops

Like I said, it's all my fault, and I take responsibility for it. I KNOW the Miroku-san are good guns, but, just about any continental or English boxlock speaks to me at a higher level.
If it has double triggers, anyway.

Best,
Ted

I've owned a couple of Jap shotguns and handled a few Turkish ones...there is something they just can't put on a shotgun I don't know what it is maybe it's just class.

Why the strong connection to the pump Ted ?

'Because it is the most purely American form of repeater, jOe, further developed and put to use here, and completely efficient in design, use, and purpose. They can rightfully be considered "maintenance free" when compared to a double, or most autoloaders. I consider them "repeater, 101" and anyone who has completed a gun safety course WITHOUT learning to handle one hasn't completed a gun safety course, IMHO-people who hand a newbie a single shot at gun safety class soon come to realize that newbies don't stick with single shots for very long if they don't have to.
My very first repeater was a Remington model 17, a gun so well thought out, executed, and efficient that it allowed me to concentrate on hunting and dog skills without regard to anything else. There were reasons pumps pretty much replaced doubles in the American field, jOe and you can choose to ignore that, or, celebrate it.
That is why I own and shoot both.
Wanna' buy a wood stocked Stupid Black Eagle, jOe? The Remington 17 'ain't for sale, however.

Best,
Ted