doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Fox HE without warning on barrel flats?

I think it is a mystery number. Check with the AHFCA to see whether they can give you some assistance.

Gun in question wound up being sold here.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/AH-Fox-HE-Grade-12-Gauge/1172130.uts?Ntk=GunLibrary&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch%2F%3FN%3D%26Ntk%3DGunLibrary%26Ntt%3D1979301%26Ntx%3Dmode%252Bmatchall%26WTz_l%3DSearch%2520No%2520items%2520Found%26WTz_st%3DSearchRefinements%26form_state%3DsearchForm%26search%3D1979301&Ntt=1979301

Any post mortum ideas on what it was/is?

Best,
Mark

I don't have a clue. The price indicated it was something other than a standard A grade. The weight, if correctly described, would indicate a special gun. Of course, the stamped or engraved "SPECIAL" may indicate that the gun had "been to Pennsylvania", a phrase that Fox collectors understand. A AHFCA letter would clear things up, maybe. A frame measurement is basic and would definitely clear things up. If the new owner would PM, maybe some assistance would be forthcoming.

Mark I got the card on that gun from the AHFCA and it turns out to be a standard A grade. After comparing the HE markings on the barrel flats and water table to other HE markings I lost interest.

Best,

Mike

Thanks Mike.

Frame measurement is more important than trying to evaluate markings. The gun's weight doesn't match the order card. If the frame measures like an HE or 0 frame, the card means nothing. In that case it is a special order H grade regardless of what the card says. You can't fake a 0 frame.

eightbore,
Every measurement and picture listed was as advertised(weight, skinny bores, barrel engraving....) am sorry I did not know the finer points of frame sizes etc. when I saw the gun, if pics do not show, barrels were stamped as Philly.

Supposing you could get anything you want, and this was IT...why?

This was one of the bigger puzzles I have seen so far, and it was just that, a puzzle!

A very nice one at that though:)

Thanks all,
Mark

Just to add my two cents. I have examined examples of Philly era Fox guns that have H size frames with standard .729 bores. These guns are not called H's on the factory cards, they are referred to as something like "make as heavy as possible" and weight 8lbs plus. All of the HE's I have measured have overbore barrels and are always referred to as H's on the factory card even if they are graded eg CHE, XHE. The gun in question falls outside what I have observed. But ya never know.

The point I am making is that a frame measurement identifying the gun as an 0 frame gun would bring its value far above a standard A grade gun. The frame measurement is the only way to determine the frame size. A close examination of the H marking on the barrel flat of this gun may give further value to the gun if the frame is identified as an 0 frame. I have seen so many "SPECIAL" marked guns out of Pennsylvania, I don't know what a real one looks like. The buyer has the added protection of a return privilege if the H is found to be a spurious mark. I wish I had asked for a frame measurement. Who bought this gun?

Just curious-- Craig, as you are the "el primo Foxist" here- Have you ever seen and examined one of the Philly 20 3" Burt Becker bored Magnums. The late T. Nash Buckingham's friend Hal Bowen Howard had one, it was mentioned in one of Nash's stories about a waterfowling hunt he and Hal shared.

I have a Sterlingworth 20 made about 1935 in Utica with 2 & 3/4" chambers, 28" barrels, DT, EJ-- great bird gun. But a friend also has a similar 20 Sterlingworth- 30" barrels, DT, EJ- and his chambers "mike" at 3" even with a Galazan chamber gauge- as well as the old rolled up index card stunt- But it is not a HE 20 by any means--