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Joined: Apr 2002
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Sidelock
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You're right, Brian, and it's been that way since Hector was a pup. Old school competence is crawling around in a wolf skin trying to scare a buffalo to death. That was all about bladder control, breathing, and vision quest. Saying you can get along with just a little 4x Weaver is sort of like saying "Oh, this little old ray gun; it's just something I keep around to miss with so my head won't get too big for my hat." As for chock tubs, they do have their uses and ic/ic is about as useful as any.

jack

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Originally Posted By: Jerry V Lape
It is truly pathetic how little outdoorsmanship remains.


Yes indeed, but even worse when the neophyte outdoes the seasoned hunter. True story... longer than my last, but entertaining I think. I'll try to keep it short as possible and for brevity GBIL will be my abbreviation for Goofy Brother-In-Law.

About 12 yrs ago, GBIL decided to get back into deer hunting because his kid, my nephew, turned 12 and wished to go. GBIL borrowed a gun from his Dad for the kid, a Rem. model 600 carbine .308. He asked me if they could come out to my place to sight in rifles. So far, so good.

They arrived and I set them up on the bench with rest, sandbags, muffs, etc., and he promptly gave the kid the rifle and shells and told him to go ahead. The kid set up and was preparing to shoot with the butt under his armpit and eye about 1/2" from the scope. Of course, I stopped him before he could fire a shot he would never forget. He had no idea what to do and I asked GBIL if he had ever taught him to shoot. "No, this is his first time."
I said he should have gotten him out with a .22 and felt a .308 in a light carbine might be the wrong gun for a small 12 yr. old to start with. I went in and got a scoped .22 and box of ammo and gave him a lesson on safety, hold, sighting, trigger control, etc., and told him to shoot up a box of .22's before going to the .308.

When he finished, I sighted the .308 to be dead on at 100 yds. and then let nephew shoot a few with a sissy bag between the butt and his shoulder. He was still shocked at the recoil and flinched a bit at first, but did OK after I coached him to relax and roll with the punch and realize it wasn't really hurting him. After the session, I told GBIL that he should buy the kid a .22 for Xmas and get him out shooting.

They hunted together that year and didn't get any shooting.

Next season, nephew is now 13 and a little taller and huskier. GBIL again asks to come out and sight in rifles. Again, I set them up and ask if the kid has shot any since last season. GBIL says no, and I ask why in hell he didn't take my advice and get him a .22 instead of Nintendo's or Playstation's. GBIL just shrugs, and I went in for the .22 again and told them to practice for awhile with that before shooting the big guns. I went in to pre-measure some black powder loads so I could shoot my flintlock, and heard them banging away with the .22 for a while before switching over to the .308.

After a bit, GBIL comes in and informs me that the kids' gun is way off, about 8-10" high and 6" to the right. He asked me what to do. I asked if the gun had been dropped or if they had fooled with the scope and he says no. I told him we'll have to check for loose mounts, broken reticle, etc. and if all is well, we'll need to adjust the scope.

I went out and checked things over and all was well. But the target board showed a group, or pattern really, that was about 8" in diameter and way high and right. I noted the kid was shooting off of a pile of sandbags a foot high and told him this was not an excercise to see how well one could balance a gun on a pile of bags. GBIL suggested maybe I should try the gun and I agreed. I got rid of most of the bags, chambered a round and squeezed off. A hole appeared just where I sighted it last year. I tried another and a second hole showed half an inch from the first. The third shot gave me a nice group under the size of a nickel and I said I don't think the problem is with the gun.

I pulled another round from the box and as I placed it on the follower, I caught the headstamp... FN-53 7.62 NATO. I pulled it out and asked GBIL where in hell he got these. He said his Dad gave him a couple boxes to use and I looked and saw the remaining box-and-a-half was a mix of Remington, Winchester, spitzer, round nose, and mostly old military FMJ loads. I informed him that these are illegal to use in Penna. and spend five minutes explaining why. He was adamant that since they shoot OK they will be fine for hunting. I finally get through his thick skull and told him that the gun is fine, but he needed to go out and buy a box of 150 gr. Rem. or Winch. loads and get out again before the season opens to make sure they group where they should. I told him, "You're on your own because I'm leaving for camp to hunt grouse for a few days before deer season opens." I reminded him that the kid really needs a .22 and I looked at the kid and said, "You really need more practice." He giggled at this and I said, "I'm serious, the way you're shooting, if you aim at a deers' heart, you'll be lucky to break it's spine."

Well, I heard nothing until the last day of the season. I believe it was the first year of Penna's. combined buck and doe season. I did not take a doe and got no shots at buck and was at home putting my gear away and heating dinner when the phone rang. My sister was on the phone and she asked if I had been hunting. Then she asked if I did any good and I replied in the negative. Then she told me my nephew wanted to talk to me and I figured the kid probably got a doe.

He got on the phone and breathlessly said, "Uncle Keith, remember when you told me that I needed practice and if I shot at a deer's heart, I'd be lucky if I hit it in the spine?" I said, "Yeah..." He said, "That's exactly what I did!" I still figured he probably whacked a 90 lb. doe and asked what he got. He sounded like he was peeing himself as he said, "I shot a huge 14 point... you gotta come see it!"

So I went to see it and I took my scale so we could weigh it. I almost crapped when they opened the garage where it was hanging. It was indeed a huge non-typical 14 pt., 6 points on one side and 8 on the other with long thick tines, bases as big as my wrists, and 19" spread. This was a mature thick necked buck in his absolute prime, and when we weighed him, he tipped the Stillard scale at 198 lb. hog dressed. (quick edit here: another old hunter assisted them with the hog dressing as GBIL didn't have a clue.) I asked how the kill happened and nephew tells me he was sitting on a log when this bruiser came trotting by at about 30 yards right on the heels of a doe. He said, "I aimed for his heart and when I shot, he just disappeared." Well, I'm not surprised because when I examined the deer for a bullet hole, I found he had hit it high in the neck just behind the skull. A scant inch higher would have just given it a haircut. This is beginners luck on steroids. I tell the kid I think he really missed clean but that a piece of debris from that Space Shuttle finally came down and hit the deer. Of course he thinks he is Larry Koller reincarnated.

I asked GBIL where they would have the head mounted and he told me they were "just going to cut his horns off and screw them to a board." He thought taxidermy would be too expensive. I said, "Are you nuts? I've been deer hunting over 30 years and never got anything close to this. Open your wallet and get the damn thing mounted for the kid."

Well, I convinced him and nephew has a real trophy on his wall. Still thinks he's Joe Deer Hunter. Still couldn't hit a pony in the ass with a snow shovel.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Don't be so hard on Goofy Brother-In-Law, at least he took his son out hunting. My old man was always too busy recovering from the night before or drinking beer or watching football to take me out hunting.
Steve


Approach life like you do a yellow light - RUN IT! (Gail T.)
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My neighbor asked me to help him set up a couple of deer stands last weekend. I agreed as he has helped me on other projects in the past. Much to my surprise I discovered that his idea of a deer stand was a small cabin on stilts with a roof to keep the rain out, a padded swivel chair and "shooting windows" on each side. he says that he uses a heater on cold days and sometimes takes a battery operated TV to watch football (hopefully with the sound off) while he is waiting for the deer to show up. For some reason he still finds it necessary to wear one of the latest gore-tex camouflage outfits while inside this contraption! We set up his "deer stand" on the edge of a green field specifically planted to attract deer. He also has an automatic feeder the drops corn at a specified time each day to lure the deer in. Fortunately he has to remove the feeder before hunting season due to Game and Fish regulations. Whatever happened to the idea of "fair chase" hunting?

ben-t
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ben-t
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All you have to know is: C-mere deer.

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