doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Warped action

treblig

There's a range of approximately 500 degrees the can produce true Case Hardening colors, with varying degrees of hardness. True case hardening produces a hard (wear resistant) outer shell, while the core of the steel remains soft. This allows for slight tweaking of the parts if needed.

Now Case Hardening is not a new or novel process, I've got over twenty turn of the century books on the process. Well understood process (at least it was back then). Remember, all sorts of things were case hardened...; car axles, watch gears, even Starrett case hardened their precision measuring tools; it was the quickest way to add a hard surface to soft steel

All types of data: time to temp to thickness of the case ie... 1500 deg for 4 hours will give X thickness of case, or the same can be had at 1600 deg for 2 1/2 hours but you must add an additional enegizer.

And even ways to minimize warpage

V/R

Mike

seems like every time this subject of shotgun receiver re case coloring vs. receiver re case hardening comes up, someone accuses me of "torching guns", which implies that i condone the use of an acetylene torch or other high heat producing source to heat up a shotgun receiver, in an open air, uncontrolled environment; in an effort to obtain the appearance of case colors. this practice sounds haphazard at best, and should be opposed by all who value fine guns. i know i do! for the record, i will repeat again here what i have posted on this subject a few times in the past:

I myself do not do any gun work of any kind. I have neither the skills nor the patience. Instead, i utilize the services of Ed Lander, for most of my repair and enhancement needs. Old Ed has over 60 years of experience in the gunsmithing trade and does fine work at a fair price. He has re colored literally hundreds if not thousands of sxs shotgun receivers using his low controlled heat, chemical process. For those who did not get it the first time, i will repeat: low controlled heat, chemical process.

Ed Lander has developed his techniques over many years of trial and error. He uses different chemical formulas to simulate different factory colors for different guns, depending on when they were made. For example, his work is so precise, that he can closely duplicate Philadelphia Fox colors, vs. Savage Fox colors. I am not sure, but i do believe he uses a potters kiln or similar device to precisely control heat. What i do know, for sure, is that his top priorities in all of his work are shooter safety and customer satisfaction.

Also, i wish to state here again that much of the criticism of old ed's case color work seems to come from those who make money pursuing the risky and dangerous practice of shotgun receiver re case hardening, in the vain effort to restore case colors.

I know this thread threatens the future business of the likes of sxs shotgun restorers and engravers; but the facts are the facts, as sadly discussed in this thread. all should be aware of the risks involved when contemplating messing with the original factory receiver heat treating of older sxs guns. the only good that i can see coming from this story, is that there are now perhaps a set of o frame parker barrels and hopefully, some nice wood available for use in the restoration of other fine guns. so it goes....

I’ve had a few of my old doubles re-color cased with no bad effects or warped actions so I’m thinking that it depends entirely on the person that does the work.

Look. The trouble is with this sort of thread is that what innocently starts as a question on what to do about case hardening that has gone wrong turns into a opinion boxing match. We all have different opinions and feelings on this process that's for sure.

I don't care what other people think about colour case hardening. I've spent a long time researching it and I'm doing it because I am fascinated by the science and black magic...if it goes wrong...tough on me.

Anyone knows that this is a risky business. Heating parts to first 820 degrees and then again to 723 degrees and dumping them into cold aerated water introduces stress to the parts.

Let’s stick to topic. What does the guy do? Simples...he contacts the company that case hardened the parts and asks if they are willing to cover the re-facing work or whatever is needed to fix it. Treb, you nailed it.

Cheers!
T

ball.: unfortunately, there are just too many horror stories like this one to take this subject so casually. if you have seen, as i have, a fine pre-war h&h sxs, with a cracked receiver, but really nice new case colors, then perhaps you would sing a different tune. ed

That's the thing. It must happen all the time. I'm not being casual I'm saying it as it is. Do it if you don't mind taking the risk, don't if you do!

treb: i wish it were just that simple. you have had good luck so far. keep in mind that the laws of probability and murphy are now working against you...ed

There are several ways to obtain color on gun metal, but only case coloring looks like case coloring; and only case color looks 'right' on a fine gun. While that's just my own opinion, I'll bet nearly everyone on this forum agrees with me...Geo

Personally I think the torch jobs of "Old Ed" the "Master Gunsmith" are hideous. So far I have found a grand total of ONE person that sees a beauty in that form of butchery and that is the one and only Ed Good (or Ed Lander). If the re-Case Hardening and Case Coloring is SO damn detrimental to these old guns, why are so many reputable companies offering it?

Let's face it Ed, not one person on this board agrees with your "warped" mind. Perhaps you stood to close to the furnace or drank someones quench water and it ruined your perspective of reality. It's a shame that gunsmiths aren't required to have a license and pass an exam to practice the craft. Maybe then they could "disbar" Old Ed and prevent even more guns from getting torched.

Gentleman,
Thanks for your support and insight. I am happy to report that the above mentioned Parker warp problem has been rectified. The warp was very minor and the action flexible enough to allow assembly of the bottom piece. Also, the hammers move freely. All is well that ends well.