doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Look at these beautiful doubles! PRICES NOW POSTED

I was wondering what grade the stocks in the photos would be considered. Like you said, GRADE 3 is standard, but it doesn't mention if the wood shown is upgraded or not. If I do end up ordering a gun, I'll most like upgrade the wood to their best grade.

I am seriously considering ordering both a boxlock and sidelock. The BIGGEST thing stopping me is the unknown factor of quality. Plus, I'd like to see close up photos of the engraving.

Adam

The sidelocks that first appeared were Turkish-made Kimbers, priced around $5K for a sxs. They did not sell. For that money, you can buy an AyA #2, and AyA already has an established reputation. I think the S&W Elites are OK at $1200, but they were originally priced over $2K. Had to be discounted heavily to sell. And the Ruffed Grouse Society bought a bunch of the Kimbers for banquet guns, to give to life sponsors etc. Far as I know, they got stuck with a bunch of them.

Turkey may be the next Spain, but it's not there yet. It could be in terms of quality I suppose, but the Turks haven't yet established the reputation than the Spanish makers have--and remember, it took the Spaniards a long time to overcome the effects of the cheap stuff they sent to this country, back 30-40 years ago. Those sidelocks may be good values in the mid-$2K range. Obviously lower priced than comparable Spanish sidelocks, except perhaps for Ugartechea. And at that price, they have a far better chance of selling than did the $5K Kimbers. The problem there was that the Turks already had a pretty good rep for inexpensive guns, mostly under $1K, thanks to CZ. But it's a big jump to $5K, and not many buyers were willing to take the plunge. If the S&W's and higher grade CZ's work out OK, then I think these guns may stand a chance as well--assuming they work as good as they look.

That would have been the Kimber "Valier" also marketed as a "Hatfield" recently...I had one, thought it was too heavy and gave it back..

Other than weight, was there anything else you disliked? Weight is not a major concern for me.... in fact, I like heavier guns.

Thanks for your input!

Adam

I would highly advise not to order just 2 guns. For the amount and price range you are better off working with their US partner or you guys as a group get an order together and then order.

JOhn Boyd
Quality Arms Inc
Houston

Adam, the "valier" I had was a pre-production gun. I pretty much liked everything ...about except the weight. It did need better finish work, and the later ones were much better. We have and shoot 3 other Turkish guns and are happy with all of them. I did have a single trigger DeHaan that I had probelms with, but Mark took it back and its double trigger replacement has had thousands of rounds through it, no probelms. Would I buy a car made in Turkey? YES! The Ford "transit Connect" van is made in Turkey. My neighbor has one, and its awesome. When the AWD Diesel version hits the shore.I'll prolly buy one..

That's correct; it was the Valier model. Initially, it was offered both with and without ejectors. I can't recall any of the gun writers doing a review on the Valier, but I remember one on the Kimber OU--the "Marias" model. I think written by Bruce Buck in Shooting Sportsman. That gun had problems firing reloads reliably and, I think, one brand of factory shells. Also quite heavy for a 20ga field gun. I believe Bruce found a couple other issues as well. And that gun sold for about $2K more, if I recall, than the Valier. I don't think they sold many.

Like alot of Turkish guns, quality control can be very lacking. We are speaking within the same maker. The same gun can be great and the next one a real mess.

John Boyd

Faux finished grade I suspect.

That's a good point, Joe. I wouldn't be surprised if all the beautiful marble-grain was just fake processing.

What American company did such a thing with their rifles back in the 90's? I can't remeber the process, whether "sprayed on" or "glued on" but the beautiful grain in their stocks was complete fabrication. And they were completely upfront about it, too, they weren't trying to fool anybody.

Damn! I can't remeber the company or the actual process.