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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 683
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 683 |
I've got a heavy gun that's 4# 9oz. unstruck weight. Needless to say, it's on a heavy frame.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15 |
3# is typical for a SXS game gun and 3 1/2# fairly typical for a pigeon gun. At 4# 9oz, I'm going to guess a big bore long range fowler. Barrel weight and weight distribution must be matched to action + stock weight and weight distribution to achieve ususal balance range and usual swing efforts. If you were to "shoehorn" a set of long, heavy barrels on a light stocked action you would find the balance so far forward as to compromise handling, most likely.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15 |
Rocketman is right, and the location of striking is one of the secrets to the "instant of inertia" that is touted by certain firms. It is that "something" which you like about a certain gun but can't put your finger on...Steve "Instant of Inertia" !!!! Oh, I love that one!!! IOI!! 
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,432 Likes: 35
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,432 Likes: 35 |
"Striking" is a metal removal process (filing and polishing). The amount of metal removed and location from which it is removed determines peak barrel stress, as well as the barrel's contribution to gun weight, balance, and swing efforts. The barrel maker had major input into the gun's characteristics. That is some dream foistered upon the public along with the rest of the "magic" required to create a 'best" gun. Didn't you ever read Vic Venters on "Concentricity"? Way more important and working towards quality than the hackneyed notion of striking for balance. If you had any clue how little change the balance can actually effected by "striking" you stop repeating this absurdity. I'm quite sure you Never put any file to any barrel. Striking is simply about removing the flaws from the barrel finish to achieve a quality bluing or browning and final appearance. There is not enough metal removed to effectively change handling qualities without drastic thinning of the barrel walls. If this was ever done, it certain is out of the scope of today's gunmaking.
Last edited by SDH-MT; 07/17/11 12:40 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,343 Likes: 2126
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,343 Likes: 2126 |
And another one bites da' dust! Thanks, Steven for that contribution. I always had my doubts about that "striking for balance". I have draw filed octagonal barrels and know the work involved in striking, though I've never attempted a shotgun barrel. Have no need to, someone else has always beat me to it.  Shotgun balance is, indeed, an important issue in handling, but much BS is written about it by people looking for a few more paragraphs. Just like this notion, now, that you can somehow utilize the difference in handling between a comp gun that has steel screw in chokes compared to one that has titanium ones, toward higher scores. Bull! SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Stan; Considering the price differential between Steel & Titanium they have to come up with Something to Sell them. Not much different than adding a new powder to an already existing line & promoting how much it will reduce "Felt Recoil". Occurs all the time & folks Swear By It. I would be quite certain there are those out there who have laid out the green for those titanium tubes & would also swear they can "Fel" the difference in balance & that their scores have improved by X number of clays as a result.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 21
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,883 Likes: 21 |
Might have been something to that 'striking for balance' notion back before the invention of the lathe.  As Miller knows, taking any significant amount of metal off a barrel would be a lot easier in a machine. And you can also file in a lathe a lot faster than on a barrel stuck in a vise. Any of you that have measured wallthickness have seen that barrels, for the most part, have a constant wall thickness from muzzle to about 15" +/- from the breach. Then many have two straigth tapers, one shallower angle from the thin section, and another steeper angle to the breach. These angled tapers are blended enough in the "striking" process that they are often not noticed and thought to be a smooth single taper or even a radius. Holding a set of early 20th century barrels up to a light source and looking down the outside makes the two tapers evident. If I were to guess what purpose of "striking" was, I would venture to say it was to blend these three cuts and remove the machining marks. Any manufacturer that has ever tried to machine and finish a product of any kind will always strive to maximize the use of the machine and minimize any hand work. This is as true today as it was in 1900. Anyone that doubts this, I recommend you go buy a 30" bar of 3/4" diameter mild steel, which should cost about the price of a meal at McDonalds, and try to hand file .010" off the diameter the full length. I'll check back with you in August. Oh, and keep it round too.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,763 Likes: 374
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,763 Likes: 374 |
...I recommend you go buy a 30" bar of 3/4" diameter mild steel, which should cost about the price of a meal at McDonalds, and try to hand file .010" off the diameter the full length. I'll check back with you in August. Oh, and keep it round too. Not saying I could or would want to, but this is just machining and probably very doable with careful layout. I do see your point about the time involved. It's just that it might still require more time and much more skill to strike the new diameter rod well.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15 |
"Striking" is a metal removal process (filing and polishing). The amount of metal removed and location from which it is removed determines peak barrel stress, as well as the barrel's contribution to gun weight, balance, and swing efforts. The barrel maker had major input into the gun's characteristics. That is some dream foistered upon the public along with the rest of the "magic" required to create a 'best" gun. Actually, I was thinking more along ther lines of sleeved guns. Stick on a set of 0.035" wall tubes unstruck and compare them to tubes struck to more along the lines of 0.025" walls. Chuck is right in that today most of the metal would more likely come off in a machining operation rather than filing. Didn't you ever read Vic Venters on "Concentricity"? Yes.Way more important and working towards quality than the hackneyed notion of striking for balance. If you had any clue how little change the balance can actually effected by "striking" you stop repeating this absurdity. Actually, I can tell you exactly how much effect on weight, balance, and swing efforts any measurable removal of weight will have, given the location of removal. I'm quite sure you Never put any file to any barrel. And you are wrong on that count. I'm hardly in your league of craft, but I certainly have passable skills. Some of my skills include developing theory of handling, development of tools to measure it, and follow-up to see what is important and what not. Striking is simply about removing the flaws from the barrel finish to achieve a quality bluing or browning and final appearance. There is not enough metal removed to effectively change handling qualities without drastic thinning of the barrel walls. OK, what do you call the process of profiling the barrels? I say "profiling" as I consider that the correct modern term, but believe most would refer to it as striking.If this was ever done, it certain is out of the scope of today's gunmaking. I've seen some pretty fair amounts of metal coming off the outside of barrels in some European shops.
Last edited by Rocketman; 07/17/11 11:53 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,763 Likes: 374
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,763 Likes: 374 |
Isn't the profile of something just the shape or outline of the side view. I don't believe buffing would turn that same profile into a best gun barrel, but proper striking might preserve the same profile while creating a preferred look.
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