doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Griefelt Drilling?

Thanks again Raimey for all the information. I will definetely get the wax chamber cast done to get the exact measurement of the rifle barrel. Jeffrey

Jeff: I can appreciate your concern not to diminish value of an antique by "cleaning" it--but that refers much more to furniture and the like than to firearms. Clean it. Don't let rust get a foothold. Proper (and perhaps the word "proper" needs some clarification) cleaning of a firearm is part of preservation, and is NOT considered a detriment, or something that would diminish value IMHO. Steve

You bring up a great point Steve and I have been on the fence on cleaning it. Honestly I can't tell you when the last time it probably had a "good" cleaning! Of course the barrels have had a patch or two down them but no real wipe down of the gun. I don't plan on selling or trading the gun as it will be handed down to my boys in time. I really don't even have an idea what this gun is even worth at this point. I have had several people tell me not to use a solvent based cleaner on this gun. I was told to clean it like a muzzleloader and use really hot water and dawn dishwashing soap followed up with a wipe down in gun oil. I guess the solvent based cleaners will potentially strip the Patina off the gun which is what you don't want to do? I am new to antique firearms and don't want to make a novice mistake. I will most likely follow Raimey's advice in the earlier post to clean the shotgun unless anyone else has some additional advice?

The problem with using water on an old gun like that is you can't be sure you will get it out of all the cracks and crevices, and the gun oil may not displace it. So then you get rust. The cleaning method for black powder guns means ONLY the bores, NOT the wood and adjacent metal. And it is specifically for black powder shooting, which I suspect is NOT what you've done with the bores in this gun.

My suggestion for cleaning everything metal BUT the bores is to get some bronze wool, the finest/softest you can find (big hardware stores have it) and some penetrating oil (I use Kroil). Then VERY gently remove any crud on the metal, using LOTS of oil and VERY LITTLE "elbow grease." "Patina" by the way, means just about nothing--one guy considers raving, wild red rust to be "patina" and another thinks it is a microscopic film of dried fingertip oil from last year's handling--"patina," like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

My advice is just to go slow, take off any loose stuff first, wipe down, and look. If it still looks like there's crud, oil up, rub lightly, then wipe off. When it looks right to YOU, stop. In my case that would be when the crud stops coming off easily. And that's WAY before you see any bright metal!

Hot water and detergent is a good way to clean the exterior of the stock and forend, assuming you can keep the water off the wood/metal joints and the metal. I use a soft rag for this to control the water, go slow as above. When done to your taste, wipe the detergent/water mix off with pure water, dry with a hair dryer turned not too hot, and then apply a light coat of stock wax. Removes organic crud like finger scum and dried on gun oil, stock wax buildup, etc. Use a used soft toothbrush to lightly clean out the checkering and dry that area especially well.

Good luck; a great heirloom deserves great care.

PS, the reason for bronze wool, not steel wool, is that it is slightly harder than crud and surface rust, and softer than bluing and browning finishes. Steel wool is harder than anything but the gun's metal itself: it can take off the exterior bluing or other finish.

Thanks Mike for the input, Honestly the "Dirty" condition of the shotgun has been eating at me. I will take you up on your suggestion with the bronze wool and Kroil and give the shotgun some much needed TLC. The value doesn't really matter much to me as this will stay in the family. I just didn't want to do anything to the gun that would be irreversable. Thanks Jeffrey

Pay particular attention to the chamber--if it is in the same condition as the area around the rim groove, you could end up with extraction problems. Oiled 0000 steel wool on a rod chucked into a drill works WONDERS on the chamber and bore with absolutely no ill effect--if anything it seems to burnish the surface.(According to the late Ralph Walker in his book Shotgun Gunsmithing.) Just be sure to use a guide to keep the rod aligned if you use a metal one with a brush holding the steel wool. A spent shell with the primer knocked out/drilled a bit if necessary, works great. I agree with Mike on the water no-no, and don't think that solvents are problematic for the most part, anyway. You'll be fine...Steve