doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com BURNT CHRISPY?

this needs to be repeated now and then. seems like it is time, again.

Heating any shotgun receiver without controlling the temperature and heat duration is potentially dangerous and can damage guns and potentially harm shooters. If a shotgun receiver is heated to critical temperature, such as that required for the bone charcoal surface hardening process to be effective, then the structure of the surface metal has been changed and the metal should be tempered back to provide some elasticity. Otherwise, the receiver may be as brittle as glass and may crack upon firing of the gun.

Incorrect tempering of receiver surface metal is the inherent flaw in the use of the high heat bone charcoal process when applied to shotgun receivers. A dangerous situation may develop as a result of incorrect tempering of the receiver surface metal after the high heat bone charcoal coloring process is completed. This is particularly true of older shotgun receivers, made prior to ww2. Factory tempering specifications were inconsistent, as receiver metallurgy formulas changed from time to time. Unfortunately, much of the original factory hardening and tempering specifications have been lost. Even the best of mechanics are only guessing when they attempt to correctly re temper a shotgun receiver after subjecting it to a high heat bone charcoal hardening process.

Quality case coloring should provide cosmetic enhancement without endangering gun integrity or shooter safety....Be careful if you are contemplating sending your prized shotgun's receiver to a high heat bone charcoal mechanic.. He is going heat it up to around 1600 degrees F... Make sure that you get it in writing, that if the receiver warps in the heating and tempering process or that if it cracks after firing, then the mechanic will assume full financial responsibility for the destruction of your gun and/or your personal injury.

A low, controlled heat process, combined with specific chemicals is the safest way to recolor a shotgun receiver. So long as the heat is kept low and controlled, the original receiver metallurgy and heat treatment is not changed. No harm is done to the gun nor is there any potential for danger to the shooter, as a result of the re coloring process.

In summary, shotgun receivers should never be re hardened in the vain interest of restoring the cosmetic effect of case colors. Case hardening is a high heat process which alters the surface molecular structure of the receiver metal. Re hardening a receiver can warp it. Subsequent efforts to straighten the metal, either by bending or filing can only harm the fine original metal-to-metal fit and adversely alter the workings of carefully aligned internal shotgun parts. In addition, if the receiver surface metal is not correctly re tempered after the hardening process, then the receiver metal may be too brittle and as a result, may crack upon firing.

And if you over heat the receiver to 2500F it could melt and burn you. And if you handle the torch improperly when you are applying your case color treatment you could damage the factory case hardening and the action could bend as you have made it soft again. The case hardening causes the action to bend like a spring and then return to shape. If you overheat it while torching it it will bend and not spring back. And if the kid at Quik-Change-Oil doesn't put the plug back in the pan correctly it could ruin your motor and perhaps leave you stranded on the side of the freeway where perhaps you could be accidentaly run over by an Oldsmobile 98 driven by Master Gunsmith Ed Landers.

But if the action is case hardened by a gunsmith competent in the use of the bone charcoal method the results will be good.

The safest way to put case colors on an old gun is to use a hobby spray gun outfit and paint them on. Probably no less garish or unsightly than what you are doing and perhaps as durable. And just as authentic.

Best,

Mike

"But if the action is case hardened by a gunsmith competent in the use of the bone charcoal method the results will be good".

could be true...problem is, there have been enough incompetents attempting to do this kind of work that it makes the whole trade suspect.

"Quality case coloring should provide cosmetic enhancement without endangering gun integrity or shooter safety....Be careful if you are contemplating sending your prized shotgun's receiver to a high heat bone charcoal mechanic.. He is going heat it up to around 1600 degrees F... Make sure that you get it in writing, that if the receiver warps in the heating and tempering process or that if it cracks after firing, then the mechanic will assume full financial responsibility for the destruction of your gun and/or your personal injury".

So I guess it is fair to say that just in case the Master Gunsmith falls asleep with the torch in his hand while he is "enhancing" one of your guns that you put it in writing that if it cracks after firing then you will assume full financial responsibility for the destruction of the gun and/or buyer's personal injury.

I hopped over to Gunbroker and copied this off one of your ads:

"SAFETY NOTICE: Buyer is solely responsible for determining that a used gun is safe to shoot. The firearms offered here have not been test fired but have been given a visual inspection only for auction purposes. Buyer agrees to hold seller harmless against damages, injury, or death caused by defective merchandise."

Doesn't sound like you have much faith in Master Gunsmith Ed's case color process to me.

Best,

Mike

I'm in danger of getting involved, where did 1600 deg f from?

In your vernacular, he pulled it out his arse.

Best,

Mike

mike: you and others, seem to be fixated on this torch thing. i thought i had made it abundantly clear, that, to my knowledge, old ed uses a low controlled heat chemical process to recolor shotgun receivers...i am beginning to question your reading comprehension skills.

as for the safely notice disclaimer found in my gun advertisements, that is a standard disclaimer that i use in all of my ads. it has nothing to do with any body else, but me. hopefully, if i ever get sued, it will hold up in court and release me from unreasonable liability...i also noticed that when confronted you dodge and weave and attempt to change the subject.

Ed doing anything mechanically incorrect to a shotgun can ruin the gun and be dangerous.

Here is what your advice is if someone gets there old shotgun case hardened by the bone and charcoal method:

"Make sure that you get it in writing, that if the receiver warps in the heating and tempering process or that if it cracks after firing, then the mechanic will assume full financial responsibility for the destruction of your gun and/or your personal injury"

And here is your guarantee:

"SAFETY NOTICE: Buyer is solely responsible for determining that a used gun is safe to shoot. The firearms offered here have not been test fired but have been given a visual inspection only for auction purposes. Buyer agrees to hold seller harmless against damages, injury, or death caused by defective merchandise."

You tell me who is dodging.

Best,

Mike

mike and 999: 1600, 1400, 1800. it makes no difference to me. all are above critical temperature?

999: based upon your postings on this forum, i have the impression that you have achieved some success in re harding shotgun receivers. i also have the impression that your experience is quite limited. how many shotgun receivers have you re hardened?

mike: which leads me to ask you: how many shotgun receivers have you re hardened?

mike: apparently, you do not get it. asking a high heat bone charcoal mechanic to accept full financial responsibility, if his work goes wrong, is not the same thing as a general business liability disclaimer. you may not realize this, but most of the used guns i sell have not been worked on by any one i know. however, they may have been worked on by people that i do not know. to paraphrase don rumsfeld:

we know what we know

we know what we don't know

we also don't know what we don't know

i am getting kinda tired of all of this. lets let it go for a while?