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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,238 Likes: 142
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,238 Likes: 142 |
And I don't have my guns case hardened or case colored....
so what is this all about then? sounds like you just like to debate?
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 683
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 683 |
why do people rebuild old cars and motorcycles?,why do people restore furniture? why put new rims and tires on a car when the original ones are round and work well.the only valid reason is because original guns in like new condition are hard to find and expensive.doug mann is rebuilding a optimus you think that it has anything to do with deception.you need to rethink that statement.and if someone want to spend money on rehabing there property what business is it of yours.i have my wifes grand fathers gun im going to do my best to restore it.mc You restore motorcycles and cars to increase performance. At least to working position, plus they increase the value. People restore furniture to decrease the value CONSIDERABLY. Unless it's in parts, furniture is more valuable in its original condition. Original guns in like-new condition are valuable, but restorations are....well, restored guns and without knowing the restorer, you're taking a chance. Not to my tastes. Restoring a gun to me is like restoring furniture, which you mentioned. You decrease the value (watch The Antiques Roadshow.) It's knowing the market, I suppose. Give me the original, at least on the outside. I'm all in favor or bringing a gun on face and maybe reboring, maybe not (I'm not sure how a pitted bore if not excessive denegrates performance.)
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 Likes: 1 |
And I don't have my guns case hardened or case colored....
so what is this all about then? sounds like you just like to debate? No, I beilieve you are posting misinformation about bone charcoal case hardening. I am arguing against the misinformation. If you were posting that ducks fly backwards even though I don't hunt ducks I would argue that they fly head first. And the last five posts I have been responding to you. If you wish to withdraw from the conversation please feel free. Best, Mike
Last edited by AmarilloMike; 08/15/11 08:32 PM.
I am glad to be here.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
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i say again: i do not trust anyone professing to be an expert at the high heat bone charcoal shotgun receiver re hardening trade. i have seen to many botched jobs to have any confidence in their consistency.
Really? Lets see some of these botched jobs? I have had one gun that Turnbull colored and it was a 20ga Parker that came out beautifull. Funny it didnt shatter on the first shot fired. Geeez Ed can you please explain?
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,238 Likes: 142
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,238 Likes: 142 |
i give up...have at it boys.
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1 |
Looking at this from a long way away, it seems to me that if this 'Experienced Gunsmith' Mr.Landers is using a torch in his colouring process, he is not Colour Case Hardening the part. I strongly suspect he is using the torch in conjunction with a chemical called Tincture of Benzoin, which, when applied to a polished metal surface and irregularly heated with a torch, will produce a range of colours which the uninitiated can mistake as CC Hardening.
I would love to give a piece of Mild (Low Carbon )Steel to Ed.Landers and have him apply his colour case hardening technique to it. I would then apply the simple file test, I have a strong feeling that the file would plough off filings at every stroke whereas a correctly CCH treated metal would have the file skid off the surface without marking it.
The Faux (false colouring) technique was even described in one of America's leading gun magazines some years back. Prettying up an old or indeed a new action by the application of faux colouring in not, and never will be, Colour Case Hardening. The faux colouring method does not harden the metal it is applied to, in any way at all. CC hardening can only be applied by the Bone/Charcoal or molten Cyanide method. There are other methods of case hardening of course, but these do not produce the required or desired colouring.
The application of faux colouring and then describing it as CC Hardening is nothing but Shade Tree Gunsmithing as the Americans so delightfully describe this form of firearm butchery. Here in Britain such false claims would result in prosecution under British Trade Description Laws.
Harry.
Last edited by Harry Eales; 08/16/11 03:16 AM.
Biology is the only science where multiplication can be achieved by division.
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 638 |
Harry,
Thank you for your accurate assessment of Faux Case Coloring. I do wish that we had laws against this deceptive practice such as you described.
Thank you,
Mark
USMC Retired
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,238 Likes: 142
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,238 Likes: 142 |
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 625 Likes: 1 |
Harry,
Thank you for your accurate assessment of Faux Case Coloring. I do wish that we had laws against this deceptive practice such as you described.
Thank you,
Mark Hello Mark, I have dug out the three page article from my files, I originally obtained it from the ASSRA Archive. Unfortunately this very large collection of Magazines, books and Seperates has been packed up and is awaiting transit to a new archive location and computerised filing of the total contents. It is unlikely that the Archive will reopen any time soon. Tha only clues I have as to it's origin is that the article covers pages 39-41 in what appears to be one of the Annual Gun Books such as Gun Digest or similar volume. In the bottom corner of each page is simply the wording 28th Edition 1994 which may help narrow the field somewhat. The article by a Mr. Bill Holmes is entitled rather euphemistically as Case Hardening, which of course is not true. I would scan and post a copy on this board but I am unsure of the current copyright implications and don't want to run foul of the law. Sorry I can't be of more help. Harry
Last edited by Harry Eales; 08/16/11 07:30 AM.
Biology is the only science where multiplication can be achieved by division.
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