doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Sleeving steel barells to a twist monoblock

Chief;
Very Good. I held off as long as I could stand it as really I do hate to seem persnickity. But when a term describes a specific method I really hate to see it misused.

I have a Lang trigger plate 12 bore, beautifully engraved with the smallest and finest engraving you ever saw. The barrels are beyond redempion. I have a set of really nice Belgian twist barrels on a 12 bore I was considering to sleeve on the Lang stubs. I discussed this with Hugh Lomas and I will send the Lang and the Belgian twist barrels to him and he will see if he can do this, if the Belgian barrels are sound enough. They are really nice barrels
This appeals more to me than having the Lang sleeved with common old steel tubes.
Intersting proposition, eh?
Mike

Just saw a parker that had that done and was reproofed to boot. Damascus mono block steel tubes. You could not tell at all unless the light was just right.

Years ago when Lefever offered barrel sleeving services, I had them install a set of steel tubes in a PH Grade Parker mono-block; which mono-block had been made from the standard Parker Twist steel tubes. When completed, the barrels were rust blued; and as was noted above, only in really bright light could one see the barrel tube joints. This was an early No. 1 framed Parker; and if the balance of the Lefever restoration performed on that gun had been to the same quality level as the barrels, I'd not have traded it off.

Regardless of proper terminology or not, the common term used is "mono-blocking" and everyone knows what it means. So, that changes the definition. It's like "sleeving". That's a somewhat misleading term as well. There are others in dealing with guns. Regardless of personal opinion, definitions are based on what people understand a term to mean. Definitions do change. There are also such things as coloquial definitions. Even Webster's list multiple definitions on words. Miller, it was hard for me, but I've recently come to accept "sleeving" to mean chopping off the barrels and attaching new ones thru a process that has a portion of work that fit my definition of "sleeving". I think my bloodpressure went down after I just let it go.

Chief,
My take is that even some modern chromoly tubes wouldn't change the type/pressure of loads I'd put thru the gun. If you have good damascus barrels, I'd run 'em with good low pressure handloads or some of those pricey low pressure loads.

[size:11pt][/size]Toby Barclay does this type of work frequently. The work that Toby's men do is great. You can see and usually shoot some of these shotguns that have been sleeved by Toby's men at The Vintage Cup and The Southern SXS at Deep River. Do you have the original full length ribs, top and bottom ??? If not that will cost $700 to $900 extra, ribs are expensive. You might be able to salvage ribs off of another shotgun barrel if you need them.

Toby sometimes post here. He can tell you all about this procedure. Maybe Toby can post some pictures of this work.

Like one of the other posters said, you can drop down one gauge if you like when you sleeve the barrels. Toby's men can sleeve a 12 to a 16 gauge usually with no problem.

Toby has been known to take a shotgun with him in September and have it back in April at The Southern SXS for delivery.

England's definition of an ANTIQUE FIREARM is 1896 or before 1896. If the work that you would like done is on a shotgun that was built before 1896 that makes the paperwork easier for Toby.

Come on Toby, chime in here and help this guy out.

Chief, This work will cost $3000.00 to $4000 U S Dollars. Several hundred of these dollars will be taxes, transportation, and new proof testing in England.

Toby has a proven good track record doing this work.

Good Shooting To You, Jent

"Like one of the other posters said, you can drop down one gauge if you like when you sleeve the barrels. Toby's men can sleeve a 12 to a 16 gauge usually with no problem."

You can certainly do that; but I contend you won't get the finished look you'll be satisfied with if you're as anal as I am.
All my sleeving/mono-blocking activities took place in the 1970's and 80's; and I remember a couple of old 16-bore Damascus Parker guns with which I was infatuated, so I sent them to Del Grego for restoration. My request, among other requests, was that these guns be mono-blocked back to 16-bore (love the 16-bore); in both instances Mr. Del Grego advised me that he MUST re-tube these barrels to 20-bore, as the "barrel walls would be too thin at the joint and would therefore be unsafe". I was a lot younger and very inexperienced in those days; but I now believe that his claim was pure unadulterated BS. At any rate, I agreed but the end result was an elimination of the nice original factory tapers built into the tubes; and necessary where barrel wall thickness is gradually reduced between the breech and hinge pin area. The mono-block was created by chopping barrel tubes just past the hinge pin; then joining the smaller 20-bore tubes to the larger 1arger diameter 16-bore tubes, which resulted in a noticeable "angle" at the new tube joint. I've also seen a Quality 7 LC Smith that was factory re-barreled from 10 to 12-bore; the resulting "look" was very similar; but then I can accept/excuse such factory work. Back in the stone age before we understood what we now know about Damascus tubes and mono-blocking was common, I also saw my share of 16-bore Parkers that had been mono-blocked to 28-bore; but I never saw an example that "looked right", and every example I examined was on the heavy side. Obviously a man can do with his gun as he pleases, but I would never recommend mono-blocking a quality double to a smaller bore size.

Chuck,

I have been shooting the gun with low pressure loads, sparingly, with no problems. I would like to shoot the gun more, maybe much more. The low pressure loads will always be used in either barrel set. Winter is just around the corner, I need a project!

topgun,

I have to agree with you. I wouldn't want a 7+ pound 20ga. I would like to think that a set of modern steel tubes could be fairly thin and hold up fine. The twist "monobloc" has massive wall thickness, as most guns from that era have. Lots of room to bore them out. If the new barrels were turned down and extended all the way through the old breeches there should be adequate strenghth for LP loads. This is the part of the project that will require more research.

Jent,

Thanks for the info! I do have the entire barrel set from the parts gun. The original ribs and forend hook. It would be good to re-use them. The original maker and address would be on the new barrel set. Is it required to mark the new barrels as not original?

Chief

Hello Chief, The bottom of the barrels will be clearly marked when they pass the proof test for sleeved barrels. Toby is scheduled to be at The Vintage Cup in September in Maryland. If you attend The Vintage Cup of 2011 I am sure that you will be able to inspect several shotguns that have been sleeved by Toby's men exactly as you desire to have done. Good Shooting To You, Jent

Chuck;
When you bore out the chambers & insert the new tubes then the chamber section has been "Sleeved", no problem there. The sleeve does not have to be full length to be a sleeve. Cutting off the bbls from the chamber area does "NOT" convert it to a "Mono" Block, anymore than it converts it to a Chopperlump, it it wasn't so built originally. Monoblocks are built from scratch, not made by cutting off a set of existing bbls.
I have noted that a lot of folks who get terribly upset over the term "Water Table" casually toss out Monoblock with no concern at all for its accurate use. Whats wrong with calling something by its Proper Name & not using the same term for Something Else.