doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com BURNT CHRISPY?

I wonder why Ed.? Am I too close to the truth for comfort.

Harry

Agreed...............false advertising is about as close as our laws come over here........that I know of....especially on used re-worked goods...........?.................

Cheers,

ah cant resist...for you limey dudes, that means i lack self discipline...

Heating any shotgun receiver without controlling the temperature and heat duration is potentially dangerous and can damage guns and potentially harm shooters. If a shotgun receiver is heated to critical temperature, such as that required for the bone charcoal surface hardening process to be effective, then the structure of the surface metal has been changed and the metal should be tempered back to provide some elasticity. Otherwise, the receiver may be as brittle as glass and may crack upon firing of the gun.

Incorrect tempering of receiver surface metal is the inherent flaw in the use of the high heat bone charcoal process when applied to shotgun receivers. A dangerous situation may develop as a result of incorrect tempering of the receiver surface metal after the high heat bone charcoal coloring process is completed. This is particularly true of older shotgun receivers, made prior to ww2. Factory tempering specifications were inconsistent, as receiver metallurgy formulas changed from time to time. Unfortunately, much of the original factory hardening and tempering specifications have been lost. Even the best of mechanics are only guessing when they attempt to correctly re temper a shotgun receiver after subjecting it to a high heat bone charcoal hardening process.

Quality case coloring should provide cosmetic enhancement without endangering gun integrity or shooter safety....Be careful if you are contemplating sending your prized shotgun's receiver to a high heat bone charcoal mechanic.. He is going heat it up to around 1600 degrees F... Make sure that you get it in writing, that if the receiver warps in the heating and tempering process or that if it cracks after firing, then the mechanic will assume full financial responsibility for the destruction of your gun and/or your personal injury.

A low, controlled heat process, combined with specific chemicals is the safest way to recolor a shotgun receiver. So long as the heat is kept low and controlled, the original receiver metallurgy and heat treatment is not changed. No harm is done to the gun nor is there any potential for danger to the shooter, as a result of the re coloring process.

In summary, shotgun receivers should never be re hardened in the vain interest of restoring the cosmetic effect of case colors. Case hardening is a high heat process which alters the surface molecular structure of the receiver metal. Re hardening a receiver can warp it. Subsequent efforts to straighten the metal, either by bending or filing can only harm the fine original metal-to-metal fit and adversely alter the workings of carefully aligned internal shotgun parts. In addition, if the receiver surface metal is not correctly re tempered after the hardening process, then the receiver metal may be too brittle and as a result, may crack upon firing.

sorry, if my post is redundant, but it appears that some have not yet comprehended it...

Now ed you posted this on this very thread yesterday:



And while I agree with you that you don't know what you are talking about here I don't understand why you continue to post about bone charcoal case hardening since you admittedly don't know anything about it.

And since we are repeating ourselves just about anything done incorrectly to the metal parts of a shotgun can screw it up. Including Mr. Landers doing something incorrectly to it.

And so you don't have to ask Dave still hasn't contacted me. If you don't believe me you can start a third Lorenzotti thread with the Gun Broker number and see.

Best,

Mike

I believe the reference article is in 1994 Guns Illustrated Annual.

Hey Ed, if the receiver was case hardened, it has a different metallurgy (the case) than the original steel/iron. I don't believe the process can take on a life of its own and magically make the entire piece high carbon to be brittle as glass.

Are you sure a part would be heated to 1600*.

I strongly suspect that the highest temper a case hardened piece would tolerate is somewhere around 400*. Otherwise, I believe the colors quickly start to fade above that temperature. As quenched high carbon steel will still be very hard at that point, thus only the case is hardened. I believe the professionals leave the inside alone, and can be really good at managing appearance and fit issues.

I don't think the molecular structure gets changed at all, but the crystalline structure of the steel has to change for it to harden. Lots o round and round, and I know I shouldn't add in either.

craigd: hopefully 999 or stallones will answer your questions.

mike: is there any specific point made in my case coloring narrative that you would like to challenge?

I have my older guns restored because I like it. Plain and simple. Not trying to deceive anyone. And I don't care about value (not buying 99% Philly Foxes or the like) In fact I'm pretty proud of the work done by the incredible craftsmen who have worked on some of my guns. BTW, thanks CJO. Am happy to talk about the amazing work they have done.

Especially the CCH.

Ed, what has happened. You seemed to keep a reasonably low profile and then suddenly, in the last several weeks, you won't stop posting. New threads and posts every five minutes. Are you laid up with nothing else to do? New keyboard for the computer? Off your meds? On your meds?

Why yes there is ed and thanks for asking. Yesterday I posted this and you never addressed it:



And you haven't adressed this:



Best,


Mike