doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Sleeving steel barells to a twist monoblock

Jent,

Thanks again! I am not at all familiar with the process, learning much here.

Chief

Miller,
You're right. Still, people will continue to call a stromboli a calzone or visa versa, and cutting barrels in preparation to sleeve them will be called "monoblocking" by most. They will be understood by their audiences for the most part and that's really what's important. There's just too much inertia on this use of the term in this context to change everyone's understanding. The numerous uses in this thread alone are testament of this fact. The definition has included this process to them and many others. It's not important enough to me to fight the tide. Continue the battle if you must.

Bro. Barclay's images (and others) here
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/20580224

It took some studying for me to conceptually realize the difference between a monobloc and sleeving of barrels because the two processes on the surface seem so similar. But they are different and I agree with Miller that the terminology should not be 'Amercanised' or 'bastardised' because the two are not one of the same and clear and accurate terminology is proper and important in the whole scheme of things.

Ah Buzz....I'm havin a beer. If a group of people are talking and they understand each other when one of em says they had a really good tasting beer but it was really a malt liquor, why would I care to correct them? I gotta get up and get another.

Thank You Buzz!!
When one comes to understand the word monoblock is not actually describing the method of joining the tubes, but the process of building the breech section of the bbls then it becomed obvious this is a totally mis carriage of the term.
Over the life of the monob;lock several methods of joining thr tubes have been used.
In Henri Pieper's original patent he bored a slight taper through the block from the breech & inserted a tube having a mating taper from the breech end, seating it in the taper. This produces the bbls sometimes seen referred to as "Fretted" which have a decided step at the end of the block.

Some later models of his guns have the front of the block bored out & threaded. The tube has a short section at the breech turned & threaded & is screwed into the block from the front.

Other makers of monoblocks have bored the block with a straight hole all the way through & inserted the tubes with a turned tenon into the block from the front & soldered it in.

These all shared the trait that the block itself including the lugs was machined from one piece of steel, having no joints. The high tempertures of brazing were thus not needed & was a major claim of the patent.

The tide will likely never be stemmed, but every once in a while I take a shot at it, hoping that the true meaning of the term will not be totally lost to posterity.

Miller,
You should start a glossary of terms on this forum. Really. I think it's a good idea. I'm sincere. It will help with common understanding of conversations on these threads and maybe raise the standard of English here. I'm absolutely sure we can count on our English cousins to help us out too.

But, both you and I interupting a thread to debate a definition is disruptive.

Miller, ChucK et.al.: I wonder if it would be proper to refer to the breech section in the sleeving process as 'faux monobloc' to help those of us more ignorant to conceptualize what is actually happening in the sleeving process because the terminology is a little confusing?? Or is there a term already in existence which describes the barrel remnant which attaches to the action which I am unfamiliar with?

Chuck;
A perfectly fine Glossary already exists, far better than anything I could write up. It is readily available on the home page & presented by HallowellCo. I quote their definition of MonoBlock;

Monoblock barrels - A method of building a pair of barrels where the entire breech end of both barrels and the lumps together are machined from one solid piece of steel. The barrel tubes are then fitted separately into this monoblock and the ribs attached. Often identifiable by a distinctive ring around the barrels about three inches in front of the breech end. The favored jointing method of the Beretta company. ""An incorrect euphemism for sleeved barrels"".

I added the quotes. My first short post was not really intrusive on the thread, & quite suffecient for anyone who cares. The "Arguments" arose from those who obviously Don't.

Chief,A key safety issue when sleeving any Damascus/twist barrels is the type of lumps used in constructing the origional barrels[ie; chopper,through,shoe or dovetail lumps] coupled with the quality and condition of the origional brazed joints.I recall one apparently quality gun that I had in mind to be sleeved. The detached barrels were clamped in a vice holding on the under lugs.A couple of moderate blows on the breech end of the barrel exterior with a lead hammer resulted in a visual failure/cracks of the origional brazed joints. Net result, a scrap gun! Perhaps more sophisticated tests such as X-ray or die penetrant of the barrel breech end would have shown the flaws in the barrel construction.
Take care not to spend money on sleeving unless the integrity of your barrel construction is first proven.