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Forums10
Topics40,333
Posts574,117
Members14,696
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Most Online32,084
Jun 14th, 2026
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 182
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 182 |
I owned a basic Hellis BLNE that was a solid gun. One design I've seen on Hellis guns, but not on many others from the UK, is a gun with a little metal plate added to the stock right behind the receiver. An attempt, I guess, to give somewhat the effect of a sideplated boxlock. Can't decide whether I like the look. The attempt was...to give the head of the stock more strength. Hellis believed in this. It looks nothing like what Cogswell & Harrison did to their boxlocks to attempt a cosmetic "sidelock" appearance. To my eye, the Hellis treatment is somewhat pleasing, they did it right and made it their own. I especially like the looks of the higher grade Hellis boxlocks with this treatment. Dustin Interestingly enough, Dustin, I have some C&H catalog copy in which they refer to their sideplates as "ornamental strengthening plates". Apparently they believed--or claimed to believe--the same thing Hellis did. The Hellis version is unique, and I think a lot of people either like it or don't. I certainly would not reject a Hellis with the plates, if everything else suited me.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15 |
While Hellis was in London, I believe all the Chas. Hellis guns I've seen were Birmingham proofed. I believe they made guns in-house (probably some outworker help) until the 1890's and then slowly migrated to selling and servicing Birmingham made guns; a relatively common business model.
As for the Isaac Hollis guns, I've seen a couple and they were crude hammer guns. While I'm sure others will point to exceptions, these were my experiences. I've seen pretty much the entire range of Original Quality grade from I. Hollis.
Certainly, a Hellis is worth more than a Hollis, all things being equal. I'd disagree on that and say they would sell for similar money. Do you have any comparables to discuss?
Hellis is certainly a tier-III maker (tier-II is the likes of Westley Richards, Lang, Atkin, Grant, Lancaster, Hussey, etc.) Do you have a complete listing for your tiers?
Tier III makers would include: Greener, Pape, Egg, Osborne, Turner, Richards of Liverpool, Cogswell and Harrison, Playfair & Bentley, etc.
Naturally, in each class there were several grades and qualities but some firms are known for best guns, others are not. How many Original Quality grades do you recognize?
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 707
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 707 |
4 tiers.
Case and point- 6 Hellis shotguns on gunsinternational, all $4k-$6k
3 Hollis shot guns - $1500, $2800, $6000. (and the $6k one is way overpriced)
The market seems to agree with my opinion.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,219 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,219 Likes: 89 |
I own a Charles Hellis two-inch gun I use for short range work such as quail over pointers which has 26 inch barrels and I asked Hellis researcher Terry Utterson about it. “Your gun no 4132 is described as a 12 bore A&D non ejector with 2 triggers, 26" barrels and 2" chambers.
Doug, I own Hellis #4135, same configuration as yours (I assume it's a straight stock?). Mine weighs 5#6-8oz. (I forget exactly) and is a pleasure to hunt grouse with in the New England coverts, easy to keep one hand for the gun and one hand for climbing if need be. Those 2" shells can be quite lethal, on both ends. I stick with RST's but some of the others seem a bit more powerful. Small club, the 2" 12ga... I found Terry Utterson's email address last night and received this back.... "Thank you for your enquiry for Hellis gun number 4135. I am happy to help. Gun number 4135 is described in their sales ledger as a 12 bore double barreled A & D ejector with 26" barrels, 2" chambers and 2 triggers (rel ej 12 / 2" ). It was built and placed into stock on the 31st of October 1936 and sold in November of the same year to Wilson for £25. This model was named by the company as the Reliable." Interesting how ejectors added about 50% to the original price of the gun and that your gun's serial number is 3 digits lower than mine but was made a year and a half later after mine. thanks, Rob      
Last edited by Recoil Rob; 08/26/11 08:37 AM. Reason: more info
My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income.
- Errol Flynn
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 182
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 182 |
Nice little 2" guns there. Thanks for the information on yours, McDougie!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,393 Likes: 715
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,393 Likes: 715 |
While Hellis was in London, I believe all the Chas. Hellis guns I've seen were Birmingham proofed. I believe they made guns in-house (probably some outworker help) until the 1890's and then slowly migrated to selling and servicing Birmingham made guns; a relatively common business model.
As for the Isaac Hollis guns, I've seen a couple and they were crude hammer guns. While I'm sure others will point to exceptions, these were my experiences. I've seen pretty much the entire range of Original Quality grade from I. Hollis.
Certainly, a Hellis is worth more than a Hollis, all things being equal. I'd disagree on that and say they would sell for similar money. Do you have any comparables to discuss?
Hellis is certainly a tier-III maker (tier-II is the likes of Westley Richards, Lang, Atkin, Grant, Lancaster, Hussey, etc.) Do you have a complete listing for your tiers?
Tier III makers would include: Greener, Pape, Egg, Osborne, Turner, Richards of Liverpool, Cogswell and Harrison, Playfair & Bentley, etc.
Naturally, in each class there were several grades and qualities but some firms are known for best guns, others are not. How many Original Quality grades do you recognize?
Uh Oh Rocketman, you might have some competition regarding YOUR tier system. No, not really...you're still the man. Did any of the gunmaking Eggs even make guns after the 1850's??? Dustin
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,608 Likes: 426
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,608 Likes: 426 |
There was a sort of Hellis proprietary gun, the Hellis Featherlight or similar "Feather" wording. It was a nice sidelock , usually with a feather wreath in the ample engraving. Like the name implies, they were very light.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 15 |
See the URL below for the Hellis Featherweight pair auctioned at Glen Eagles this week. They hammered at 7500 BPS - about $12,000 for the pair. Add 20% buyer's premium and $500 shipping and you have near $15,000. Hellis is Brand Value level three (BV3). The guns are about Original Quality grade two and a fourth (OQ2.25 closer to and "A" grade SLE than to a "B" grade SLE) and are near Current Condition level 2 and a half (CC2.5 is between Slight use and Significant use ); BV3-OQ2.25-CC2.5 = $7,500/gun. Spot on. CHARLES HELLIS & SONS
A FINE PAIR OF 12-BORE "FEATHERWEIGHT" SIDELOCK EJECTOR GUNS, NOS. 3943/4
26-inch barrels with 2 1/2-inch chambers about 1/4 and full choke borings, top extension, the frames, locks and gold-numbered top levers with fine border and scroll engraving surrounding a pair of feathers within a shield, retaining much original hardening colour (Key to Current Condition level rating; guns used very much do not retain "much" case color.), the maker's name signed within a scrolling banner, lined cocking indicators, rolled edge trigger guards, 14 1/4-inch well figured stocks, slightly cast for the left shoulder, 6lb. 4oz., nitro proof, in their brassbound oak and leather case
The guns were completed in December 1935 (note the flatback design - by 1935 the stocked to the fences style was so ingrained that "best" guns were not built on flatback actions; but, guns such as these did approach Original Quality grade two). The guns are built for the right shoulder, the current owner having had the stocks cast on. They will easily return to their original position. http://www.gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0013&LotRef=89
Last edited by Rocketman; 08/27/11 12:34 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 364
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 364 |
Hey Recoil Bob, I see the initials "JA" on your barrels. Any idea who this barrel maker was? I have a Rosson from 1938 with the same initials.
nial
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Mr W martin
Unregistered
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Mr W martin
Unregistered
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nialmac,
re ja barrel stamp.i also have a pair of barrels(1958)
marked with ja, after enquiring i have been told joseph ashbury.
name spelling may be slightly wrong.
cheers
mrwmartin
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