doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Heavy 20 gauge guns before WWI.

The pre WW1 Parker order books are full of 20 gauge guns made for 3" shells. Some are on heavy frames, some are not. Edwin Hedderly's famous Parker long barrel smallbore wildfowl guns are on light frames. I owned a 20 gauge original 3" gun serial number 153,333 that was ordered at 8 pounds. It was a great gun and I would like to have it back.

Sometime after the First World War G. E. Lewis of 32 & 33 Lower Loveday Street, Birmingham began offering �magnum small bores� which the firm claimed �are superseding the 12-bore for general game shooting�the 20-bore shooting the ordinary 16-bore load of 7/8 oz. to 1 oz. High velocity is obtained with less bulk and easier alignment than with the larger bores. A pamphlet describing the results obtained with these guns by W. Baden Powell. Esq, in conjunction with the shooting editor of the Field, will be sent to any interested sportsman.� In an age when 20 bores made in England featured 2 �-inch chambers these �magnums� were chambered for 2 �-inch loads. Lewis advertised �that excellent results can be obtained with these guns when properly bored and regulated.�

There is of course no comparsion to the increased effectiveness of the smallbore shotgun as there is in the smallbore rifle.
The rifle fires a single projectile while the shotgun fire a Charge of shot. The increased balistic co-efficient of a heavier smaller dia bullet retains its velocity & energy to a much longer range than does a fat short one. Compare a 200 grain bullet for instance fired from both a .30 cal & a .44 cal at the same velocity. The .30 cal one will far outrange the .44 one.
The small round shot having a very low Ballistic co-rfficient do not gain much at all in being speeded up much beyond their normal velocities. In fact the more they are speeded up, the quicker they lose velocity. As the speed of sound is passed drag increases all out of proportion to the increase in velocity.
Unless a great improvement in pattern can be shown for the small bore little is going to be gained, & this is "Highly Unlikely" to occur.
For 3/4oz of shot I would personally prefer nothing smaller than a 28ga, for 1oz othing smaller than a 20ga & a 16 would be even better & for 1�oz A 12ga has it all over a 3" 20ga.

Sorry, was interrupted yesterday and didn't finish the last sentence. It should have run "Buturlin's 24-bore Paradox by Matska, referred to in the DGJ Matska article, which is supposed to be built on the Ivaschentsev system but does have the rising bite as the top fastener."


Thank you all, it's very interesting. The heavy Parkers 20s appear to ba made as deliberate long-range weapons, and go even further in this respect than the Ivashcntsev-inspired heavy 20s which were made as all-around game guns.

I'll have to dig up Ivaschentsev's articles to give a deeper account of the original logic behind the heavy 20 thing, other than provided above.

On the practical side, the Sokol brand smokeless gunpowder, the most common one before 1917 and almost the only one widely available in the Soviet times, is a pretty capricious chemical - it really needs high chamber pressure to work properly and functions in small bores better than in big bores. Especially if you want to use light loads, 1 ounce or less, in the 12 gauge - hopeless. So for someone who is limited to Sokol and has to use both regular 12 gauge loads and light 3\4 oz loads, the heavy 20 is about the only way to go.

What about Fox's big 20's? Nice article in the current DGJ.

I have researched the 20-gauge Super-Fox guns in the records and two were ordered "chamber for 3-inch shells" and one "3 inch chamber". I find many pre-WW-I graded 20-gauge Fox guns ordered for 3-inch shells, and a few for 2 7/8 inch shells. The gun Tom wrote about in The Double Gun Journal is built in HE-Grade livery, but is on the regular frame and the production card gives a weight of 6 pounds 14 ounces. Likewise the Nash Buckingham ordered "Big Twenty" CHE is on the regular frame with a weight of 7 pounds. Most of the 20-gauge Super-Fox guns have weights given from 7 pounds 10 ounces to 8 pounds. My 2-frame Parker Bros. weighs 8 pounds 4.5 ounces with the 20-gauge Vulcan Steel barrels in place and a fraction of an ounce over 9 pounds with the 12-gauge Damascus barrels.

Needless to say not a double, but Winchester made the shotgun version of their 1885 Hi-wall Single Shot in 20 ga 3" from the beginning. The action wasn't wide enough for any larger guage and so the 3" chambering may have been to allow users to shoot 12 guage loads and get the "larger guage" effect. Barrels were normally 26" full choke but could be ordered modified or cylinder; some guns were takedown and extra barrels could be ordered (presumably rifle barrels as well, altho I've never seen one).

The 3" 20 was well known and fairly widespread before the current craze (that began in the late 1950s?). "Heavy 20s" make some sense as specialized guns for special uses. I don't see the point of 3" chambers in ALL 20s, including 5 3/4# birdguns tho. But here we are.

It would seem, then, that the most logical explanation for the Russian heavy 20 - shooting a 12ga load through a 20ga - is that powder chemistry and physics were driving gun design to accommodate the powder's characteristics. For whatever reason, powders better suited to the 12 were not available in Russia, and customers desired the performance of 12 ga. So ... make a gun that gives that performance while working with the powders that were available.

An entirely different reason than the American desire to reach out and touch waterfowl at long ranges, but yielding a similar solution.

By the way, Hedderly didn't order long chambers on his long barrel smallbore Parker Bros. guns. He was packing "express loads" in 2 1/2 inch cases, obviously not believing in any need for more wadding!!

I wonder if a 3" chamber in a 20 gauge will be considered the same as a forcing cone job?
Always wondered about that
Mike