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Forums10
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 831 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 831 Likes: 10 |
I have a new B grade Fox, straight grip 32", made about 1912 The bbls weigh 4 lbs 2 oz and it has 2 7/8" chambers that appear to be original also has the oval Fox proof stamps on the flats, bores are .729 and the chokes are a tight .039" that start about 6" from the muzzle equal on both sides.
My question is.... are these #1 bbls and would this be a factory 3" gun?
CJ
The taste of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten.........
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,246 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,246 Likes: 4 |
Claudio, yes they are 1-weight barrels. 2-7/8 chambers may or may not be original. Check your PM's.
Frank Silvers
I AM SILVERS, NOT SLIVER = two different members. I'm in the northeast, the other member is in MT.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 271 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 271 Likes: 2 |
Hi CJ. I'm no expert but I do have a Fox A grade, 1913 gun, w/original 3" chambers that measure 2 7/8". Bores of my gun are .724, chokes are factory IM/F and are 4"+ in length. 32" barrels are stamped #1 and weigh 66 oz. So....without a letter or copy of the factory build card to say otherwise I'd consider your B to be a legit 3" gun with #1 barrels. Do your barrels have the reinforced wedge like mine?
Mike C
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,405 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,405 Likes: 16 |
Claudio, The only 3" Fox HE I've had in the shop measured shorter with three different chamber gauges. Info in a recent SSM story. Steve
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133 |
It was fairly common practice with several American firearms makers to bore their chambers just slightly short back during the paper hull era. There was a good 2-part article in the American Rifleman on the subject, back in the 30's. The theory--and testing seemed to support it--was that if the paper case mouth opened slightly into the forcing cone, it would give the shot charge some protection on first contact with the bores.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,246 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,246 Likes: 4 |
Steve.... HE Grade Foxes (Super Foxes) with FACTORY 3-inch chambers will measure "short" at about 2-11/16 to 2-3/4". A special, tight chamber reamer was used to center the shell = a perfect fit and a consistent transition of the shot charge into the forcing cone and bore.
Earlier GRADED 12 gauge Foxes (let's say < serial number 27800 which was the first documented Super Fox) were available on special order with factory chambers for early 3-inch shells. Very few do have long chambers done at the factory. Those that do will measure a full 2-7/8" with a regular chamber gauge. I have never seen one that has a chamber length stamp. A letter from John Callahan, or a card check done on member request by the A H Fox Collectors Association, is the only way to verify factory originality. I do own such a gun, an early CE made in 1912, that has heavy 1-weight tubes.
In sum, a Super Fox/HE Grade 12 gauge 3-inch chamber made for progressive burning powder loads like the then new Super-X shells, will measure about 2-11/16 to 2-3/4" with a regular chamber gauge. And an earlier 3-inch chamber intended for pre-progressive (bulk or dense powder) loads in 3" long hulls, will measure about 2-7/8".
I hope this is helpful. Silvers
I AM SILVERS, NOT SLIVER = two different members. I'm in the northeast, the other member is in MT.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,880 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,880 Likes: 16 |
I seem to recall Researcher mentioning the 3" shell coming along much later. Anyone recall when it was first offered?
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,526 Likes: 354
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,526 Likes: 354 |
Per Researcher:
In 1922, Western Cartridge Co. intoduced the 'Super-X' 12 gauge 3 inch shell with 1 3/8 ounces of shot, and the 2 3/4 inch 1 1/4 ounce 3 3/4 dram equiv. load. Peters Cartridge Company's 'High Velocity' and Remington's Kleanbore 'Nitro Express Extra Long Range' loads soon followed. In 1935, Winchester/Western brought out the 1 5/8 ounce 12 gauge 3 inch magnum.
Last edited by Drew Hause; 09/10/11 08:56 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 749 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 749 Likes: 16 |
Ah Claudio, If you would like to send the Fox south of the border to me, I would be most happy to check it out for you! I would think that a B grade in that configuration and condition is quite rare.
Doug Mann
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224 |
Claudio, what are your plans for the Vintagers? Our little local group of collectors will have a booth this year. Bill Murphy
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