doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com A i2 ga. fired with a 20 ga. in barrel=no damage!!

I did not pull the triggers on either gun, I said I had a very long length of baler twine.
I'm just saying I tried to blow up 2 very different guns, a sturdy Noble pump, and a ratty old JABC with, wait for it, twist barrels, and neither let go. I was unable to find any of the 20 ga shells, but now you have me curious, I'll try again, from safety, and shoot a 20 ga shell into a bale and dig it out. All this tells nobody anything, I'm just relating my findings, for Heaven's sake. Mud worked magnificently, opend up a big flap on the muzzle, but nothing happened to the damn barrels!
Mike

I don't know what that proves or doesn't prove, but there's this fact. Before Soviet-made guns known as Baikals were admitted to the US market, they had to pass through all sorts of endurance tests, including the 12-ga-fired-with-a-20-ga-shell-in-barrel one. There were no apparent damage to the guns.

Mike, although not at all scientific, that experiment has great value when shown to young people who may be handling firearms. Real life scenarios that can get real people injured terribly or killed are indeed needed. Young folks think they are invincible and immortal and first hand obvious and unsubtle demonstrations are often the only thing that can change their minds. They need to hear the sound and see the light and the damage that inattention can cause. It is one of the roads to safe gun handling.

I recall reading a test done by I believe it was Guns & Ammo once on a particular model of .50cal muzzleloader. They tried different amounts of increasing powder charges & number of balls. Finally they filled the barrel half full of powder& then filled the remaining half with balls. Upon firing everything was blown out the barrel with no apparent damage.
As a last resort they dropped "1" regular powder charge & settled it in the breech & then pushed "1" ball half way down the bore. Firing this gave them two short bbls rather than one, blew it half in two.

Essentially no shotgun chamber made could stand the strain of even an ordinary powder charge as a "Closed Cell" pressure. What allows them to be safely fired is the movement of the shot charge increases the volume of the combustion chamber, thus preventing the pressure to "Max" out. This 12/20 combo obviously has a lot more weight to move so pressures increase dramatically. In your case they just didn't reach the bursting point. Whether or not the 20ga shell fires also has an affect on the pressure.

An obstruction is a totaly different circumstance. The sudden checking of the moving powder gases creates a localized high pressure point at the obstruction. If the obstruction has suficient weight to check the charge it matters not if it seals the bore.

Well I'd think a 20 ga shell in a 12 barrel might be classified as an obstruction.

Bob, yes I really did need to blow up a shotgun barrel with the 12/20 trick for the Hunter Ed students. I was given a Browning 300 Win Mag rifle barrel split into a "y" right back to the front of the chamber, snow in the muzzle.
I might try to blow up the JABC twist barrel with a 3" slug and a 20 ga shell.
Mike

Mike, almost 40 yrs. ago another Warden and I tried this with about 4 old H&R single barrels. We wanted to have some for demonstrating what would happen for our Hunter Safety Students. Wound up just explaing to them what would happen, cause the old H&Rs withstood the experiments, some several tries. The experiments were carried out by securing the shotguns in an old tire, cord to pull the trigger while we stood behind the target house.

Hi Again:

The footage of shooting a 12 gage with a 20 gage shell lodged ahead of it proves very little to me other than it was done once.

Italiansxs is correct! One must use a much larger sample to gain any useful data. One gun is no much of a test.

The program Mythbusters attempted to blow up a shootgun by pluggging the barrel. They did not blow up the brrel! Would I try this? No!

When I was a bit yonger, I read about the new Remington 721-722 rifles being tested for strength, The guns were loaded with 5 bullets driven into the barrel and having a full power cartridge fired in the rifle. No damage was done! About 10 years later, Weatherby did the same thing with their new Mark V gun, Again, no damage to gun.

Perhaps the 12-20 thing is a old wive's tale or a myth that will not die!

Sincerely,

Franchi

If you want to try it, I'll film.

From a distance.

The whole idea of it being an old wive's tale that need not be heeded carries with it the sound of people who think bright-line safety rules are bullshit because some guy they know knew some guy who did it once and nothing happened.

Safety rules are written in blood. This is one of them.

Google "Phoenix" steel barrel failures
You should find how Fabbri was cursed with a bad run of steel, and it nearly put them out of business. SSM did an article wherein the people at Fabbri showed how with their new vacuum arc purified steel, they could routinely place an unfired 20 in the barrel of a 12, and fire the 12 with a heavy load, with no damage to their barrels.
The SSM article also showed the stupid engravings requested by Millius for the Jurassic Park producers. Fabbri's decorated with dinosaurs, Yuck.

Oddly, while I care little for the actions of the super wealthy, I am always bothered when articles imply that patrons get all they want as fast as they want, and the single buyer can wait years, and get a poorly finished gun. One guy gives a years production away as unwanted toys, and another waits 2 years for something that doesn't even work when delivered. I guess it's who you know.
I hate that.

I must confess , several years ago hunting quail and pheasants
conditions were cold, driving sleet ,miserable, birds were holding tight and alot of them, dogs were working well,
there was alot of shooting. at the end of the day I noticed my gun had a bulge in the right barrel just forward of the chamber, I remembered a point in time when I pulled up on a bird and the right barrel clicked so I fired the left barrel,
dropped in two more shells and kept hunting but did remember acquiring a major head ache at about the same time.
I had a 20 ga shell in my vest and in all the excitement not taking my eyes off the dogs on point I dropped a 20 ga shell in the gun and then after the misfire thinking in all the excitement I forgot to drop a shell in the right chamber I dropped in a 12 ga on top of it.
I did not go back to try and find the 20 ga shell but what I believe happened was the 12 ga shell fired and detonated the primer on the 20 ga and the whole business left the barrel.
The gun was a 12 ga DHE high condition Parker with fluid steel barrels , she held together , but I had to have it sleeved, Kirk Merrington did the work and it balanced the same and you could not see the seem.
and Yes a lesson was learnt. Insure your vest has only one gauge shell in it EVERY time you head out.

And if Joe shows up to comment on this, thats fine,
I deserve it !