doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 8 Ga L.C. - heads up.

Must be nice to be able to drop 42K and feel good about it!

In all seriousness, that gun looked extremely beautiful, and I don't even collect American guns.

Does everyone who knows American guns, and esp. L C Smiths agree that the grand condition is all original?

Seems odd. You'd figure an 8 bore would be used for waterfowl and therefore would take a beating. Or am I all wet and belong in the drink with the waterfowl?

Examine the pictures in the thread on the L.C. Smith forum. The gun has never been outdoors as much as I can determine. I ran a magnifier over it and there is no evidence of finish over pitting. It is just a brand new 115 year old shotgun. The fact that it is almost unique in configuration makes it such a find.

According to the thread linked in Craig's response above, the inscribed name on the gun was a man of means who chose his parents carefully. His background did not fit him fulfilling the role of a river rat nor a market hunter and if he did hunt it, he probably was in a "fancy" club with guides and comfortable blinds. He would not have "roughed it".

The gun was/is 100 % original IMHO . . . Ordered and gifted as a "non safety" live bird gun !?!? 8 bores were outlawed for waterfowl along this time and Pigeon shooting being a gentlemans sport . . I'm sure 8 bores were banned for live bird events as well . . Dr. Drew might wish to comment on this opinion as it is just that . . My opinion !!!!
Most likely the ONLY 8 bore in "live bird" configuration made in the world today !!!!

Be Safe All

Not sure that gun was ever intended to be a water-fowler; it was ordered without a safety in the same fashion as a "live bird" competition gun. The other unique thing about this gun, features wise, is that it was manufactured without Hunter's bushed firing pins feature. Surviving records tell us this particular 9-bore shipped in 1896, and it was not until 1908-09 that the bushed firing pin feature begin to be phased out. All the other 8-bore Smith guns I've seen, as well as all the other early LC Smith guns I've examined have had bushed firing pins. It would be most interesting to know the story behind both these interesting features.

I've been trying to find:
1. When Live Bird and Inanimate Target competitors were limited to 1 1/4 oz. loads and
2. IF 8g guns were prohibited, or excluded because of weight limitations.

Jan., 1879 The Chicago Field reported the New York "Brooklyn Gun Club vs. Philadelphia Gun Club, 8 guns per side competition. "Only two Parker guns on the grounds. Mr. T.E. Broadway of the Brooklyners used a Parker 10 ga. with close choke weighing 9 1/2 lbs shooting 4 1/2 drachms of DuPont's Diamond Grade and 1 1/4 oz of Tatham's soft shot. For the Philly club, Mr. H.A. Burroughs shot a Parker 12 bore with medium choke weighing but 7lb 14oz. He shot 4 drachms of Hazard's Electric Powder and 1 1/4 oz of chilled #7 in the left barrel and #8 in the right. UMC's new paper shells were said to be the choice of most to carry their loads. W&C Scott was the choice for most shooters with a pair of Remingtons and a Moore and a Williams & Powell."

I couldn't find a shot or gun weight limitation for the first "International Clay Pigeon Tournament" (or inanimate target tournament) run by Geo. Ligowsky's and J. E. Blume's National Shooting Association in Chicago in 1884; the second International Tournament was in New Orleans in 1885.

Sporting Life reported the weight limitation of 8# in 1898
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1898/VOL_30_NO_24/SL3024020.pdf
John L. Lequin. secretary of the Interstate Association, writes us under date of Feb. 25 1898 as follows:
"We have received inquiries from most all directions recently from a number of shooters who are probably desirous of entering the Grand American Handicap next month, concerning the weight of guns, and whether the handhold and recoil pad will be counted as a part of the gun when weighed. The subject has been placed before the Tournament Committee of the association, which committee has decided that the guns will be weighed naked."

As Bro. Tom said, the "rest of the story" is likely to be quite interesting! Possibly ordered in 1896 and put in the closet when the weight limitation was established in 1898? Of course private flyer shoots continued thereafter.

If the customer didn't like bushed firing pins, I'm sure he could specify "No bushings" as part of a great special order. I only have one instance of an eight gauge pigeon shoot in my research files. Finding the reference would be a chore, but I'll keep my eyes open.

Bill, that is a outstanding gun! What a treasure!
Glad that your good friend has it.

At 40 grand...I'd congratulate the loser.