Speaking of #4's and magnums, I gave a friend a couple boxes of Federal 3" #4 and #5 .410s a week or so ago. He shot them out of his long coned, .020 choked CSM 21 yesterday and I was really impressed. At 40 yrds, it had a definite killing pattern for chukar and pheasant. No question. He's going to use them on these birds next week. It'll be interesting to hear the field results. He said the #5s were good, but the 4s were better. I didn't see patterns from the 5s.