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Now Doug, the disputed point was on quality of engraving and checkering. That on the guns displayed by Walt would be at home on higher grade Parkers or Smiths.


Best,

Mike

Mike, it appears you did not read the initial quoted post.....words from Jack O'Conner......I see comments on cost, fitting, engraving, class, checkering and wood in this quote...........you must see something different...........?

You can have the last word Mike...........

Best,

I did miss the attribution to Jack O'Connor. I thought it was your writing.

I would throw the fit and finish of the guns Walt posted in with my previous paragraph about engraving and checkering:

"Now Doug, the disputed point was on quality of engraving, checkering, fit and finish. That on the guns displayed by Walt would be at home on higher grade Parkers or Smiths."

Best,

Mike

I'm the one that challenged the engraving and checkering as I didn't think there's many high grade Parkers or Ithacas that many of us have seen the guts of.

I will say that none of the American guns I've seen are all that nice inside. Parkers have the complex machine cuts that remind me of the 1911 Colt design. Fox guns are pretty rough inside and out IMO. The roughest of any of the big 4 (Parker, Ithaca, LC Smith, Fox) My attraction, and I suppose most others, to the Fox is the simple lock design and sculpting of the frame.

It�s hard to put American built doubles in various categories like you can do to British or European guns. But one thing is for sure if that was a Parker, even more so than any other American built double including the LC Smith and the Fox, but regardless of the reason, it would be out the door already!!!!

Thank you Mike,

There are some things that I could go on with...the high grade Ithaca SBT that was made into the 80's, in USA...where were the rest? I think they were made with good black walnut, old style engraving and overall finish...and somewhat affordable?

They imported some P guns for a while too though!

On the details of the old guns...

French wood is always better?

Checkering better?

Engraving "showy" but not well executed?

We all have eyes, what do YOU see...?

I see flying turnips on PARKER guns 3X the price of similar grade Ithaca guns....and the Ithacas are without the flying turnips...just sporting really good engraving.

Do flying turnips demand a premium?!

Then the few graded Ithacas sporting the same flying turnips should be demanding quite a premium?

If you value turnips....Parker is your choice if You want to pay a premium...otherwise, you can have flying turnips for a lot less

Was that a published article, by Master Jack...and hence financed?

I would not say the guns that rolled out of Ithaca were always the "BEST"......overall.

But I bet they did better at delivering what the customer wanted, and what worked for the customer than any other double maker of the era?

And were stocked with wood to be appreciated.

How many doubles did they make and sell, compared to the others?

If Jack was correct, why did they sell so well at the time and there still seems to be so many in use..if they were such junk?

How long did they outlast the "others" as a company?

Really?

Quit bashing, they were good....and ALL of the others mentioned were good too.

Who, would you dare to say, was better, really, why!?

Cuz they made innovative guns for a few years.....or they sold a buch of cheap guns forever?

I would not be inclined to think I am qualified to make that call...I just think we should keep our minds open.

Best,
Mark

Well done Walt!

Me too; which is why I've never been a fan of the SP's; to me they took away most of what makes the gun a Fox!