doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Re: Charles Boswell- Before Restoration Pics added

gjw - I also noticed that yours gun has a hinge pin or at least a screw there mine, doesn't have one, not sure why?

Hello Oberdorf, here are the prices listed in the catalog (BL Guns only):

Best - 50 pounds/100 for a pair
2nd - 40 pounds/80 for a pair
3rd - 30 pounds, no price for a pair
Farmer's - 24 pounds ejector, 18 pounds non-ejector, no pairs

Chris stated that mine cost 38 guineas for each gun (mine is gun number 1 of a pair as you can see). He also stated that it was delivered on 11-10-26 to MAJ Stuart Maples. I find it interesting that the gun was delivered 1 day prior to the end of the Great War 8 years prior! And the orginal owner being a MAJ, may have been in that conflict. Who knows.

As 16b were considered kids or womens guns, I've often wondered did he order the pair for his wife/kid or did he need a smaller gun due to a wound received in that war. If only these guns could talk!

It looks like the engraving motif on our guns is very similar. Most interesting.

Don't have an answer on the hinge pin, perhaps someone will chime in on thsi.

Anyway, hope this helped.

Again, you have a very fine gun and a great looker!!!!

All the best!

Greg

Oberndorf your gun may be based on a Webley action that had a milled hinge integral to the body of the frame no pin just hinge
Greener and Scott made bolts that did not protrude from the balls of the action. Since this took extra work it was reserved for their highest grade of guns

Gm; It is indeed nicely finished. Did you notice the photo that shows a bit of the face of the standing breech? Very very clean for 1926 or for that matter even 50 years ago.

I am pleased that we know that Boswell did have a grading system, and pleased that Chris was able to help with the dating of the gun.

As to the engraving of the scroll being deep. The engraver removes a bit of steel in the negative spaces of the scrolls and then makes a few cuts to provide a three dimensional deep appearance. I have for years tried to learn who the engraver was that engraved this Boswell and many other guns with this same scroll/gamescene style--although the game scene is not always the same and sometimes birds and dogs. In my personal collection of Birmingham A&D's I have a game scene gun of similar quality engraved by the same engraver. There are certain details of engravers work that you can examine to ascertain "matching" the work with engravings on other guns, such as the leaves in "running vine" engraving--no two engravers work on the running vine leaves style will be the same exactly, viewing under a microscope. Another area where the difference between engravers work will be in the "nicks" when a border is cut using nicks ( V cuts with either a flat or square graver).

I also noticed that the pins are engraved with the Tudor rose style and not the normal less expensive simple flower style. This demonstrates more time was taken by the engraver and more cost thereof.

We have a couple of professional engravers who view this site and maybe they will be kind and tell us of other areas where certain engravers work can be determined or matched--a bit like Scotland Yard investigation.

Lovely gun.

It will be good if the owner of the gun can take some photos of the barrel flats and let us see if the gun has the Birmingham viewers mark (cross pikes with numbers and letters) to see what year the gun was proofed. I believe Birmingham began to use the viewer marks in about 1921. Also take photos of any initials on the barrels to show the who machined the lumps and finished the barrels.

Bv

Hi all, added some info above on prices. Also, here's a link to the catalog:

http://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/historic-boswell.php

All the best!

Greg

Here's a Boswel pigeon gun I had until recently, always enjoyed the gun. Seems all the higher grade Boswells always had exceptionally nice engraving. This one was in it's makers case with trade label, although the old lining had a couple moth bites.

Some nice Boswell guns there. Obendorf I would suspect yours is a game gun with the engraving of pheasant and English grey partridge. Greg, it's not unusual for 16 bores to be ordered by Gentlemen of advancing years to use as game guns. With the original owner being a military man of some rank it shouldn't be too hard to find out more about his career. If you know his Regiment it should be even easier. Lagopus.....

Dont look like Webley actions .Several people used/made actions with solid joint pins though. As to the engraving ,Birmingham made guns so possibly the work of Henry Morris's engraving shop .

Oberndorf;

I happened to think that my previous description of the Birmingham Proof House private viewers mark may confuse, as the description of the "cross" of the mark of the time frame of the 1920's and later is not really a cross pike, but cross swords or sceptres, with a capital letter indicating a year code and a number of dots indicating the seniority of the inspector who viewed the gun. Further the year code of the time of your guns proof did not follow a calendar year but was instead from 1 July to 30 June.

Therefore for 1 July 1925 to 30 June 1926 the letter code was "E". The previous year was "D", and of course the following year was "F".

This code (introduced by Proof Master Lt. Col. Playfair in 1921) continued until 1940-41 (letter "V"), died out during the war years and reintroduced by Proof Master R.P. Lees 1 Jan 1950 with a modified mark that was used through the 1974 until the letters of the alphabet were exhausted , I believe. Whilst the Lees modified mark retained the cross swords/sceptres it differed in that a left hand letter mark (1950= "A") was used along with a right hand "B" for Birmingham; and the year letter was consistent with the calendar year. The number at the bottom of the crossed sceptres indicates the rank of the Proof House viewer. The viewer marks have been modified several times since 1974 and were within a segmented circle instead of cross scepters. This was mark was soon changed to just a circle without segments, but with right/left letters and bottom number.

I apologize for my previous confused description of the viewers mark.

It is not unusual to find a barrel proofed at Birmingham in the time frame of the private viewers mark that are not stamped with a mark.

The two proof houses do make mistakes from time to time and I have seen guns reproofed that had the bore diameters stamped on the wrong side of the flat: right for left and so forth.

Bv

Oberndorf,I Have in my collection a Charles Boswell catalogue circa 1905 with the 126 ,Strand, London W.C.address.The catalogue features 17 shotguns,3 of which are boxlock ejectors similar to your gun ,They are graded,Best quality,2nd;and 3rd; quality.Your gun appears to be third quality,it sold for 28 pounds. By comparison the best quality version sold for 40 pounds.In the same catalogue their best quality side lock ejector was priced at 50 guinease[55 pounds].Your gun is a game gun not a Pigeon or Wildfowl gun.Boswells pigeon,trap and wild fowl guns feature, Greener cross bolt,side clips,Purdey bolt and file cut rib.Stocks illustrated on Pigeon guns are half pistol grip.Charles Boswell pigeon gun 16080 in my collection[A favourite for 40 +years] is exactly as described above.