doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Blanch - Lock Plates Engineering

Yes. They brought in Spanish guns and put the Blanch name on them, kinda muddying up the name. Its quite easy to pick out the Spanish guns out of a rack. Other makers of course did the same thing.

I'm sure Toby will be along shortly to add some real insight and wisdom to the discussion. I dont believe Blanch was really a gun maker but more of a gun seller who had a particular style that stood out from other makers. In particular, the heavy use of acanthus and rosace type scroll engraving. Blanch loved this style when others prefered the smaller tighter "English" type scrolls. Blanch also used a very peculiar grape vine type of engraving, very similar to the type used on Lancasters body action guns.

I'm almost certain that all of Blanchs back action guns, and all guns like it (i.e. H&H Dominion) came from Scotts in Birmingham. They could've showed up as working guns in the white or completely finished guns to include fully engraved. Blanch bar action guns.....HB&P actions?

Dustin

Tony,
No problem with being described as a softy when it comes to Blanch guns! I have been described a lot worse!
Clair,
If you look at the top two pictures you will see the interceptor sear at rest lying in front of the breast of the tumbler.
It moves downwards as the trigger is pulled, out of the way of the breast and so allows the tumbler to fall fully.
I particularly like this system as it forms a solid barrier to the fall of the tumbler, locked between the back of the action and the tumbler.
It was called the 'Block Patent Safety' which you can see stamped into the inside of the lock plate just above the serial number. This is often attributed to a Holland & Robertson patent, extensively used by Scott in the Scott & Baker Patent guns and often engraved on the backaction lockplates of guns sold under their name and a multitude of others.
To the best of my knowledge it was never actually specified in any patent, just illustrated in the drawings, but I may be wrong.
H&H Dominions were made in Birmingham but not by Scott and certainly not by Blanch. Can't remember by who, it is in Donald's book for those interested. However, I believe the locks and actions may well have been bought in 'in the white' from Scott. Why else the very distinctive shape?
The shape of the lock plate, and in fact the entire cocking mechanism, can be traced back to Thomas Perkes who patented the cocking mechanism and later sold it to Scott. It formed the basis of their actions from the end of the Scott & Baker patent no 716 guns, which were difficult to make into an ejector model, until they adopted the Roger style of cocking the action with rocking levers.
Blanch, like Evans, were very much a retailer rather than a 'maker by the breechloading era. That is not to say they didn't have the skill or knowledge to produce their own guns but why bother paying for an expensive workshop full of gunmakers when they had access to the likes of Thomas Perkes, John Robertson and many other top flight gunmakers to make their guns for them?
The very bold engraving was their house style which they stuck to faithfully from the muzzle loading days right through to the 1st WW with a 'brief' flirtation with traditional bouquet and scroll in the 1870's through to the mid 1880's.
Like Grant and Boss during the Paddison era, Blanch tended towards the sidelever rather than the new-fangled toplever and decent quality hammerguns with the latter are very rare, most being trade guns bought in totally finished.
LeFusil, you are right about the Spanish guns, big mistake but they had to try and make money in difficult times. Baraction SLE are nearly all Webleys, screw grips and all. However the finish is top quality and the engraving is often by Kell's workshops.

Toby,
As always, thanks for sharing and discussing, especially explaing how the block safety works, you did it much better than I would have! ;-) I have a question for you...who else in Birmingham or elsewhere was producing Scott/Perkes back action style actions and barreled actions to the trade besides W&C Scott?

According to Baker....the block safety was patented in 1879 by J.V. Needham and G. Hinton. The assignation of patent (the number) was destroyed in the 1960's. No record exist of when Needham and Hinton sold this patent to Scotts either.

Dustin

Yep, thanks Toby. I have to say I think it is beautifully made and the engraving is stunning. Stock is going to take me some time but she'll be ready to shoot for my boxing day shoot I've been invited to.
T

LeFusil,
Sorry can't help you with the names of other makers producing these distinctive actions. In fact I doubt that anybody was. Why duplicate Scott's action when one could buy it in in any state from a rough casting to a fully finished gun? However, I believe a multitude of gunmakers did precisely this, buying in the parts finished to the level at which they could economically take up the baton and finish the gun off.
As example is a classic Blanch-like styled gun that I have in at present for a complete make-over. Signed by H Clarke & Sons, Midland Gun Works it is a Blanch in all respects but maybe a little poorer in overall quality. All details are precisely as one would find them on a Blanch even though presumably finished in Birmingham rather than London (nominally!).
As regards the 'Block Safety', I think you are mistaken in attributing it to Needham & Hinton. Their patent described an extension to the trigger blade that in turn moved a rotating block to the striker (p. 122). On page 124 he describes the H&H int. sear shown in Holland & Robertson's patent no 5834 of 1887 explaining that, although illustrated, it was in use before the patent.

Thanks Toby. I'll reference DGJ article "The Seven Patent Scott" by David J. Baker, Spring 1998 issue, page 136. Baker clearly states "All that we can say for certain is that this device was patented in 1879 by J.V. Needham and G. Hinton". This is in reference to "The Block Safe" intercepting safety that was to become a well used Scott feature. He goes on to explain the mechanism and how it operates in detail.
"It is a very simple device, a rocking lever hung on the lock plate with a projection at the front that prevented the hammer reaching the firing pin." And he goes on.."To remove this obstruction it is necessary to raise the rear of the lever and this was achieved by inward projections behind the sears which were lifted by the trigger blades."

Dustin

Thanks for the clarification, LeFusil. He obviously moved on from the opinion he held when he wrote the book. I am going to look and see if I have a copy of the patent as I collected patent copies when I was writing the Heritage Companions. Being a component part of several guns that I wrote about, I may have a copy.
I'll get back to you.