doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Blackbern 575arms Site.anyone? cheap German Guns

This guy has a load of reasonably priced German Guns Guns
I was wondering if anyone had bought one of his $800 Merkels?
or anything else from him
cheers
franc

Wow! What is the story on those guns. Many of them are as new. Are those the Red East German guns?

Thanks for the link Franc.

Best,

Mike

I wonder if he is mail order only?
He does have an address on the home page, but no shop hours.
As there are so many similar ones it would be nice to check em all out in the flesh.for one that looked better, or perhaps one with nicer wood.Also for gun fit, all he gives is lop.
But some do look in good/great condition, & the prices seem very reasonable, if things are as they seem.
Would be a pleasant afternoons work going through those to find a nice rainy day gun for under a 1000
I'd love to hear from some one who has looked or bought
franc

I've bought a couple of gun from Balckbern � good guy to deal with. That said, the reason the Big Name guns he is offering are so cheap is they are East German knock-offs, produced at the Ernst Thaelman Werke. Good, solid, work-a-day guns, but not what the names suggest.

Kyrie,
So those Merkels have no connection to a Merkel that you might buy today?
Can go down n pick through them in person?
cheers
franc

they are gdr guns, i dont think knockoff is a correct term.i had a gdr merkel it was very nicely finished inside and out.i think there were about 2000 people hand fitting guns at the ernst thalman plant.several name brands were produced.there are much nicer than a similar spanish gun.Franc they have more of a connection to pre war guns than what is being produced today.mc

Hi all, I've never bought from them, but I have heard that the guns they are good to deal with and the guns are as described.

GDR (DDR) shotguns were all made in the same factory as stated in previous posts, The Ernst Thalmann Peoples Works. The Reds labeled their guns with the names of pre war makers, such as Merkel, Sauer, Simson, Wolf to name some. And also under their own banner, Fortuna, Buhag etc. Basically all the same gun, just different names stamped on them.

The quality of these guns range from low end (for the common folk)to high class ones for Party Bigshots. They even had classifications for the guns quality. These codes can be found on the bbl lumps of the gun and are:

Q1 (since the early 60s) and �S� (until 1960) = superior quality over the average level of the world market
1 = good quality on the average level of the world market
2 = sufficient quality; adequate but below world market level

Perhaps someone who is an expert on German shotguns will chime in and expand on this.

All the best!

Greg

I have bought from both the son (Blackburn) and the father (Kebco.) The guns are as they state. Some of them are GDR guns built in the Ernst Thaelman Werke and others are older pre war guns built by Merkel, Sauer, Simson, and others. You can tell which are which and what is what by his descriptions and photos of the proof marks which he usually offers. The pre war guns are generally better made guns, but also generlly show more wear. The GDR guns can be good guns, depending. The prices are fair for what you get, and they are an honest importer bringing in many guns through their Swedish connection from all over Europe.
The first time I saw a four ring Krupp mark was on a set of these barrels, and our friend Geno explained that it was Russian steel used by Ernst Thaelman Werke for their barrels. I still have a couple of those guns, marked as Simsons, and have had good use from them.

Franc,

I always dealt with Carl Blackbern via e-mail (we live in different parts of the country) so I cannot speak to buying from him face to face.
The vast majority of his German guns are post-war Ernst Thaelman guns. The East Germans marked these as 'Merkel', or 'Simson', or 'JP Sauer & Sohn', or whatever name they thought would dress the gun up best. Counterfeit guns, essentially. The east Germans continued to mark Ernst Thaelman guns as 'Sauer' shotguns even after the genuine Sauer re-opened in West Germany in 1951.
Blackbern does get, from time to time genuine, pre-war or war time, Merkel, Simson, or Sauer shotguns. Ask about them, and pay attention to proof dates. Pre-war and war time guns will have proof years prior to 1945. Merkel and Sauer briefly resumed production after the war (1945 � 1947) before being expropriated by the East German government, and these guns are genuine but not as finely made as the pre-war guns. Guns with a proof date of 1948 or later are not related to Merkel, et. al.
Hope this helps.

Errr... I have to cordially and respectfully disagree with the phrase ' average level of the world market'. Having handled a number of these guns, and owned a few myself, I'd have to say more like 'average level of quality produced by a socialist state industry'.

Not bad guns, just work-a-day guns. The kind of gun one would take out on a bad weather day.