doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com P. Webley & Sons or Webley Scott?

I have come across an interesting gun at the shop. Each of these is a learning experience and this is no exception. Perusing my apparently limited references provides few answers.

It is a P. Webley & Sons, side-by-side, hammer, top-lever, damascus barreled 12 gauge shotgun. Very nice condition. Dating it seems to be problematic. It must at the least pre-date 1897 as Webley merged with W & C Scott to become Webley and Scott in 1897. It is marked P. Webley & Sons, St. James London on the rib. I understand that the spurious St. James address went away in 1870 or so. As you can see the water table has the Webley Scott trademark that was in use in 1922. The SN is 24186. I think it has the 2�" chambers but didn't have the opportunity to measure them. The barrels do not seem to have ever been dented, are browned, there is no pitting or obvious corrosion inside or out.





There are no cracks in the stock, no chips, etc. I really didn't have available lighting to get photos of the whole gun but really only wanted the stamps today anyway.

So what do you think? A re-built gun? Value? It isn't nitro proofed, is it?

I'm really at a loss as to the choke marks.

Hobie:
Appears to be a very nice gun. Perhaps a re-brown for the barrels but without seeing the whole gun, I can't say. Outstanding condition as-is however.

Unless there's been some honing, the barrels are indicated 12/13 for bore. "Choke" and "not for ball" obviously discloses original choke of some degree. Perhaps its still there. Measurement will tell.

The polished barrel flats are interesting. Not too common, but possible.

In any case, a fine gun and well worth respect.

The serial number dates it to 1879 according to my records which is right for the proof marks. Note it is for black powder. Lagopus.....

Webley and Scott prduced guns signed as P Webley and son ,W & C Scott , long after the amalgamation. I am not quite sure but I believe this contiued into the 20's.As too the brown I would doubt that considreing the age that it has not been rebrowned.
Definatly black powder proof though.

As Lagopus says, the black powder only proof marks take it to before 1887 but the W&S Bullet logo is post 1897. It could have been bought back in by W&S after the amalgamation and then resold. I don't know for a fact that they stamped up pre-owned guns that they had through their workshops but it is possible.
One other solution is that it was very old Webley stock that was proofed back pre-1887 but never sold. When W&S formed they certainly stamped up old Webley stock before sale. I know because I have handled a couple.
We will probably never know.
I don't have a problem with polished barrel flats with a gun of this vintage. Birmingham marks of this era were more likely to be on the barrels, leaving the flats plain.

I BOUGHT A P. WEBLEY SEVERAL YEARS AGO . THE GUN WAS MADE AROUND 1905 ,A VERY HIGH QUALITY BOX LOCK I THINK AT THAT TIME THEIR BEST GUNS WERE P WEBLEYS.

Nitro proof came in in the late 1890's . Nito proof became the norm in 1904. Unless stated by the submitter. Hence there were many guns made after 1904 that were black powder, mainly for the colonial trade.As to the numbers ,do not rely on lists ,guns may have been in stock as barreled actions for some time prior to finishing for sale . I undestand that Browning in Leige have considerable quantities of B25 barreld actions for example.Webley's as one of the largest producers of sporting guns will almost certainly have been the same

Gunman,
If you look at the photos you will see the Not For Ball mark which dates the gun to before 1887 when the NFB mark was replaced by CHOKE. I mention the black powder aspect only to stress Lagopus's and your note that the gun is only Black Powder proof for the benefit of the original poster.

Thanks for the help gentlemen. I have another, this time a German proofed gun.

I'd donate that one to Cracker Barrel and try to get a tax right off...or a few free meals.