doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com German gun by W. Napp ?

I have another gun, this one really puzzling...

Proofs and style say German. Marked W. Napp Plau_n (not sure of the last). Please follow the link to photos. Thanks...

Ah, ole Napp is probably some obscure firearms merchant there but I don't think it is Pilsen(Plisen???). Maybe put some soap or chalk on it and it may reveal itself. Axel may have info on Napp and know the city. It experienced proof in October of 1910 at the Zella-Mehlis proof facility. And I'd say the Barthelmes boys played some part and the tubemaker's mark may be that of Emil, or Engelhardt, Barthelmes of Zella Sankt Blasii who hung out his shingle in 1854. Of course his sons or M. Metzner had entered the scene by 1910. M. Metzner may have been into tubes also. But I'd attribute the tube knitter's initials of RS to Robert Schlegelmilch of Meiningen(an der Ower??). Like to see some close-up images of the marks just forward of the flats maybe with a little soap or chalk. Right tube looks really tight. Also see if you can get the DRGM number off the top strap and we might be able to connect it to a Z-M maker.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I'm highly confident the marks forward of the flats are the same as below, possibly inverted.




Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Yes, Raimey, very similar.



I don't think it is Pilsen as it is clearly Plau_n, I'm thinking maybe Plauen.

I thought it might have been proofed in 1910, just wasn't certain. Herr Napp certainly has no mention on the internet.

Looks like the individual tubes experienced proof with shot and then possibly together later. I think after the 1891/1893 rules that they were having ox cart loads of tubes proofed before assembly. Now the new proof rules at the Zella-Mehlis facility were from September 1st 1911(these were rule changes whereas they 1891/1893 & 1939/1940 were law), so if the Eagle Crown over N Nitro is present it was proofed in prep for the new rules.

I'll just about bet that Axel or Shotgun Charlie has one of these coil spring scatterguns. Sauer had an offering early on before the A&D action came to the forefront.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Hobie, after closer inspection the crowned intertwined EB maybe a control mark like H.A. Lindner's crown over crossed sidearms as there appears to be a brace of tube marks just below the "Crown" over S. I can't really tell but it seems to resemble Karl Funk's monogarm, but I'm not sure he would have been involved. Can you tell if that is a tool mark or a touchmark?



The city does look like Plauen but for some reason I see a F??

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I'm going to have to ask for another viewing and have the list of questions with me! I didn't get a good photo of the DRGM # but I think it was a 16, just not certain. In better light I could get better photos. I'm surprised these turned out as well as they did.

I appreciate the help. I've seen one gun like this but can't remember a thing about it other than the strikers protruding from the rear of the receiver.

I wonder if the name is akin to Reu�-Plauen(Gera), a location where Carl Seyfarth in the mid 1800 was peddling hunting haberdashery along with sporting weapons with high quality pattern welded tubes.

I've been chasing the Boys Barthelmes and there was a Valentin D. Barthelmes active in the 1st 1/4 of the 19th century. A Samuel(Johann?) Barthelmes, Gewehrfabrikant in Zella St. Blasii, in Sachsen Coburg-
Gotha along with a Gustav Adolph Barthelmes in the mid 19th century. In 1849(May 22nd) there were adverts for claims against the estate of Johann Samuel Barthelmes so he may have expired then? Kley & Barthelmes was a partnership in 1862. A year later a firm of Ritz & Barthelmes, Valtin Bernhard Ritz and Ernst Heinrich Emil Barthelmes, was founded but I'm not sure just what business they had. Also there was an I.S.(J.S.- Johann Samuel above?) Barthelmes mixed in there somewhere & he just might have been a tube maker as he was sourced by several including a F. Rubesch of Prag(1816-1896).

I've often wondered who the mechanic might have been that devised the pop-up sight on drillings when the solid projectile tube is selected. Don't know for sure and do not have the diagrams but the concern Emil Barthelmes obtained protection in 1896 for some pop-up sight variant for multi-barreled sporting weapons:

Visir f�r mehrl�ufige Gewehre, bei dem das willk�rliche Aufstellen und Niederlegen der Visirllappe(??) durch die Spannung einer unter dem Visir liegenden Bogenfeder bewirkt wird - Firma Emil Barthelmes Zella St. Blasii for 13th November, 1896.

I don't know the Gebrauchsmuster/D.R.G.M. number but as one can read it was in late 1896. They also sought protection for their ideas under other Gebrauchsmuster/D.R.G.M.s like 200043 on April 25th, 1903.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Not to diverge but is the locking system shown a double Kerstan? Thanks

Kersten, or "double Greener".
You are welcome.
Jani