Stan, serious pigeon shooting is not in my vocabulary. My pigeon gun is a PHE Parker vent rib trap with crossover stock. The VH project gun is just an exercise, a Nash Buckingham style pigeon gun/waterfowler. It is being built as a straight grip because that's what it was in its former life. It will be sort of a "Parker Bo Whoop". Unfortunately, I don't do any serious shooting with anything without a crossover stock.