doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Jules La Bantchni

AN OPEN LETTER:It has become sadly obvious to me that a great many of the membership here are not open to a free and open discourse of ideas. It also has become blatantly obvious that like George Orwell's "ANIMAL FARM" ... "all animals (MEMBERS) are equal but some animals are more equal than others" I have spent my entire professional career fighting that notion and it is one that I just can't seem to accept. Mr. Petrov is certainly an extremely knowledgeable man and that certainly can't be taken away from him, he also possesses a second to none collection of pre-war classic sporters. However he is in fact a man, just like all of us and is fallable. This seems to be a fact lost on many of the membership here and anyone with the temerity to believe this [his fallability], is quickly shown the wrath and displeasure of the membership. On the two occasions when I have taken contrary positions to Mr. Petrov, I watched as both times[now and a prior time] a quickly coordinated effort by certain members reduced my 4 star rating down to 1 and then nothing,all within a matter of hours. Not that I will lose sleep over this but it does amaze me how childishly petty, armed grown men can be. In fact Mr. Petrov has asked me for information on numerous occasions in the past, it is only now when we don't seem to agree, he finds my word unworthy of trust. The point is, we don't agree on everything, but who does? However I don't believe Mr. Petrov is right about everything, simply because he wrote a book or has done reams of research. Einstein stated just prior to his death, that he found several basic mistakes he had overlooked in his theory of relativity. That being said I do not feel this enviroment is one that I personally want to contribute to and then be castigated when I don't agree with someone. Accordingly I will no longer contribute to discussions nor ask for or furnish any information, in an attempt to simply be a silent bystander. I have been troubled by developments here for some time and the less said, the better. Sincerely Jerry

Yes, I would be first to agree in the fallibility of all individuals. But if one has been around for a while (and I must include having been around the internet for a while) one also gets a sense for BS.
That sense is something I've only encountered with Mr. Petrov when he was making it clear that BS was the point. In my experience nearly half of what I've seen on internet forums is BS and this forum certainly has its share.

Well said.
Art

Well now... how did I know the other half of the team of PETE AND REPETE(sp.)would be the first person chiming in? In the aforementioned exchange you ask... "ANY EVIDENCE HE WORKED AT PACHMAYR'S?" GRAND POOBAH: "NAH!" Steven blah blah, at least we finally agree on something...you certainly know a lot about BS and contribute more than your share! As always your unsolicited observations are unappreciated.

WOW!

Where did THIS come from? I didn't notice any public vituperative exchanges so I assume it musta been via PM.

I've dealt with both Jerry and Michael on a personal level and find them both to be splendid individuals with no BS associated with either. I can't imagine any reasonable person doubting the word of either man.

Perhaps if Jerry were to publish an article in a gun mag, then doubters would be assured that it was really true. You know, since it actually got into print and all, ya know it just HAS to be kosher(sad & sarcastic sneer).

I will continue to believe the words and research of both men, and will continue to regard both as my internet friends. I have not seen an instance where either man has questioned the veracity of the other.

In my own mind (since I too have actually written and published a few monographs over the years then I figure that I too can have an opinion, grin) I would believe a first-person account FAR FAR quicker than I'd believe ANY written source whatever.

Therefore I see absolutely no reason to doubt Jerry, REGARDLESS of any seemingly-contrary info written & published by now-defunct and therefore now-unverifiable sources.
JMOFWIW, Joe

Joe: Thank You for those very kind words and of course you and I WILL ALWAYS BE AMIGOS! But I must warn you, saying anything even remotely considered positive around here about me, is akin to getting the girl leper at a spin the bottle party! I would hate to see your hard earned reputation [STARS] fall from the 3 to 1 like mine did in a matter of HOURS! It is amazing how it takes months for people to realize you know "a little something" and only a few hours for a "snot posse" to get together and do their cheerleader tactics. It is really not the stars that matter [I won't be eaning them back!], it is the prevailing HIGH SCHOOL MENTALITY that just because I won't be part of the go along crowd, I get a screwing if I "step out of the Petrov party line" [a majority held view on almost everything, and held by myself on most things as well...I must admit!].However this is the second time this same group of pissants have orchestrated this and it is damn well going to be their last! Again you don't know how much it means to have someone at least recognize that, I am: 1.a man of my word 2.trustworthy 3.have integrity and 4. most importantly ...I can still call you my friend! Warmest Personal Regards and Deepest Respect Jerry

Ok, now every time I read something by Petrov I'm going to be wondering about a "high school mentality" and some kind of secret agenda that has been alluded to but not spelled out. This would have best been kept among those directly involved and not spread over the internet.

FWIW stars don't mean jack. The fact being any post you make is directly aligned with the ten ring of the star shooters....who cares???? Personally, I'm tired of the "he hurt my feelings, I'm not gonna play anymore" threads. Geez.....

RDH, it has occurred to me that some of this contretemps may have stemmed from some posts over on the Sukalle thread concerning the (IMO-inferior) workmanship of the Sukalle-credited bolt handle alteration(s).

IMO Jerry has taken a lot of undeserved heat on that thread and so it's also my opinion that that unpleasant experience has colored his outlook toward this thread. Too bad.

A little healthy doubt never hurt anyone who's honest, but I stand by my opinion that a personal observation is worth ANY NUMBER of supposedly factual articles/books.

I can't even BEGIN to tell you the number of my words and meanings that have been totally hosed up by incompetent editors or typesetters, with no thought or possibility of future correction. Think about it: just because it was printed doesn't guarantee its truthfulness but many of us assume so nevertheless! Remember what Mark Twain said......

FWIW I also applaud Michael for his due diligence in doing his research and if he has publicly doubted Jerry, well, I musta missed it!
Regards, Joe

A couple of comments on the current dust-up, there have been no e-mail or pm's on the subject, everything has taken place here.

I can only repeat myself,
"I value first person accounts very highly of gunmakers I have an interest in. That does not mean I'm not going to try to verify everything."

This does not mean I think anyone is mistaken it means just what I said it does, I'm going to try to verify information I receive.

Mr. Lee's recollection of Mr. La Bantchni work history and background differ from information that I have previously collected. Because of this I have gone back over all information I have on him and have been working to try to verify EVERYTHING.

If and when I ever publish anything on Mr. La Bantchni I would like it to be accurate as possible.

This is the information posted by Mr. Lee, If I have misquoted please advise.

�Did beautiful work, both stock and metal. He was also a master engraver. Worked at Pachmayr's with August and Frank from the 1930's through the late 50's-early 60's. Went out on his own until his death. He was quite prolific, his guns appear with frequency and are steadily climbing in value. Hope this helps. Warmest Regards Jerry 1/21/2010�

"The name is not Santchni...it is LA BANTCHNI as in JULES outstanding riflemaker at Pachmayr's from the late 1930's until the late 60's...early 70's (and was on his own,I've been told to the early 80's) Google his name and you'll have the pleasure of seeing quite a few examples of his Classic style work. I met him while in CA.in the 60's on my way to Vietnam and spent quite a few hours at their shop recuperating, after a 2nd combat tour and a run in with a 60mm mortar round. They were kind, putting up with me on crutches and made me feel welcome. Jules and I spoke Italian in the shop (my mother was born in Palermo) and Frank said "Only German spoken Here". NIce Rifle. HTH. Jerry" 11/29/11


"Michael: Jules worked part-time for Pachmayr while he was still a machinist at Boeing Aircraft in Pasadena. I believe he went to work full time gunmaking with Frank, after he retired from Boeing in the early 50's. As to the German speaking...Yes but it was said in jest, due to his father's German Heritage. Jules spoke good Italian. On the other hand... Mi scusi mi Italiano e' molto bruto. Ciao Jerry"