doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com J.P. Sauer Hammer Double

Hello!

Looking for some information about a J.P. Sauer 16X65 backaction sidelock hammer double with 75 cm barrels. Along with the expected German proof marks, including Nitro, and gauge marks on barrel is the number 17 on each barrel, under an eagle over crown over U. What is the 17 - model number? - bore diameter in gauge before final reaming to 16 gauge? There is no date stamp but the S/N is 2112XX -- can someone translate this into date of manufacture, even provide a model number? To all appearances the gun is entirely original and is very well made.

Thanks,
Niklas

The gun should have a 16 in a circle as well as the 17. The circled 16 is nominal gauge for which the gun is chambered, but has nothing to do with exact bore size. The 17 mark denotes actual dia of the bores at time of proof. To the best of my knowledge as long as these gauge marks were used rather than an actual dia, marked in mm's this was taken with a series of plug gages. the 17 mark thus means a 17 ga plug (.649") would enter the bbl for a distance of 22cm (8.66") but a 17/1 (.656") would not. Nominal 16ga size is .662" in diameter.

Thanks 2-piper!

Yes, there is a 16 in circle on each barrel. Does the 17 mean that the bores should be a bit larger than 0,649, even less further down the bore? The bores have some quite shallow pitts, especially in right barrel, suggesting that the bores have not been reamed since gun left factory.

Niklas

.649 to .656 to the proof house measuring point, but farther down the bore is not of any consequence as long as the gun makes proof firing. At this late date, a minor cleaning of the pits would not be a problem as long as wall thickness is still good.

Thanks eightbore!

I will not be reaming the right barrel to remove the slight pitting. At some point I will be measuring the bores to determine if the bores have been reamed and nicely polished since factory.

Now, anyone out there that can translate that S/N into date of manufacture, even model #?

Thanks,
Niklas

Year of manufacture would be 1914, according to the very good list of serial numbers/dates of build published by another of our members here. He says the list may not be perfect, but it's danged close, and I agree that it is danged close if not perfect. I have perhaps 30 German doubles in my collection, and it is spot on with all those that also have the date code stamped with the proof marks. This was during the period many guns were shipped without the additional date code, but look for it anyway. It'll appear as 3 or 4 small numbers, smaller than the proof marks, in the form of 1014 for October 1914, etc.

Thanks ChiefShotguns!! Looked again, no date numbers.

Niklas

Second translation of S/N to DoM gives 1922 as more likely and also gives model number as #2.

Maybe to trap range soon......

Thanks to all,
Niklas