|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1 members (1 invisible),
343
guests, and
6
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums10
Topics39,953
Posts568,737
Members14,647
| |
Most Online19,682
Mar 28th, 2026
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
1880 United States Federal Census about Joseph Simon
Name: Joseph Simon
Age: 30
Birth Year: abt 1850
Birthplace: Germany
Home in 1880: Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Mary Simon
Father's Birthplace: Germany
Mother's Birthplace: Ger
Occupation: Gun Smith
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Simon 30
Mary Simon 23
Emma Simon 2
Jossie Simon 1
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 12
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 12 |
Daryl,Appreciate your comments.I have taken another look at the photographs and have revised my thoughts as follows.
1/The action and locks are those covered by T&J Rogers British patent 397 of 1881 and U.S. patent 257,764 of 1882.
2/The U.S patent 257,764 was assigned to J.P.Clabrough[see L.P.Sheltons book,Clabrough and Golcher,Page 86].Did this give Clabrough exclusive marketing rights for this patent action in the U.S.?
3/The 1503 stamped on the action and barrels could be be a control number related to the R&S stamped on the action.This number dose not tie into published W.R.gun number series.
4/R&S could be the trade mark of the people that built up the gun to Simons specifications.No matc hfound for any gun maker of the era with the trade initials/mark R&S!
5/I have owned two Clabroughs finished and engraved to very high standards,both had clover leaf,dolls head rib extensions with hidden bite.They did not have W.R style top levers.
6/The question that remains to be answered is; did Westley Richards,or Clabrough build this gun or was it put together by the mysterious R&S to Simons specifications, using the Rogers patent action with W.R Barrels and top lever?
Very best wishes to all for 2012,Roy
Last edited by Roy Hebbes; 01/07/12 09:29 AM.
Roy Hebbes
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,492 Likes: 486
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,492 Likes: 486 |
Any stab at the significance of "C.104" on the triggerguard bow, as in Clabrough???
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Mike,
The 1880 census tract shows him on a "Kramer St". This street no longer exists. It became part of the expressway system in the 1950s. On a modern map it would be close to Roosevelt and Halsted.
Johnson shows Thomas on Clark street with various addresses. He was located in the heart of the Chicago business district. Johnson states this was "The Place"for shooters from across Illinois to gather.
I find this interesting. There was a large shooting club west of Chicago. We know they held many long distance shooting events and had some of the best in the midwest competing there.
Simon was living about 2.5 miles from the Thomas gun shop. He could have gotten there easily via public transportation. Like many other large cities, Chicago was growing at a wild rate because of all the immigrants. There was a sizeable German population during this period.
Nice work on pulling the census and immigration records.
Pete
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
I've dug out a few of the Simon pictures and will post them later in the day. I don't keep score but there were well over a half-dozen custom shotgun makers in Chicago. Some very fine custom shotguns will be found with a Chicago name on them.
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
My apologizes to the owner(s) of the Simon guns, if you don't want these posted here let me know and I'll pull them. The Thomas shotgun I was talking about.  
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Ahhh, Cummings. Finally I remember those pictures. In 2008 I posted the following....
"Joseph J Simon was in Chicago in 1880 working in a "car shop". He is listed as Bohemian by birth. I assume a couple of things. "Car Shop" is referring to street car, where he was possibly a mechanic or some one who cleaned the cars.
He lived in Illinois until at least 1885, his daugther Elizabeth was born in Chicago. By 1899 he is in California where his daugther Gladys is born.
The 1890 census data is not available.
In 1900 Joseph J Simon, Austrian by birth, is working as a gunsmith. His son, Joseph F Simon is working as a clerk for Wells Fargo. Is there a connection here? I am not sure....
The nationality changes reflect the changing map of Europe.
I can not find Joseph J in the 1910 or 1920 census. However, I do find Joseph F living in San Francisco working as book keeper.
So the output of Joseph J Simon as a gunsmith has to be very limited. JH Cummins only shows so far in 1900. He was a "capitalist" who went to Hawaii. His wife was born in Portugal."
Bill McPhail thought that Simon was working for Thomas at some point.
Pete
|
|
|
|
|
