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Joined: May 2010
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LRF Offline
Sidelock
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Joined: May 2010
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Hi Bob,
Most interesting, can you post a pic and do you know any of the details?

Will I see you in March at the fair grounds or heritage shows?

Joined: Feb 2002
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tut Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2002
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I'd be interested in pics as well.


foxes rule
Joined: Mar 2009
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

Joined: Mar 2009
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Hopefully, I can get some pictures attached. I'm trying to become a member of the 20th century. That still leaves some catching up to do. The 74' was done in 2005 so Shiloh has been doing this on 4140 for sometime. While borrowing some shade next to the Shiloh trailer during the Quigley, I asked one of the employees and they said it took Kirk Bryan about 50 attempts before he got it to where he was happy. I think their colors have improved since then. LRF, hope to see you at one of those shows.



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Sidelock
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Very handsome, and there is no question it Can be done....

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Sidelock
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This topic comes up time to time, and Im always willing to provide comment when not asked.

The question, as I see it; not whether medium and high carbon steels can be case hardened, but rather should they be case hardened. Medium carbon steels such as 4140 case harden with beautiful colors on the outside, BUT its what happens within the steel that concerns me.

Typical case hardening steels are low in carbon typically less than .20% carbon. Because of this they cannot be hardened on their own i.e.. Heating to red heat and quenching. They will generally remain dead soft.

Thats where case hardening is beneficial, by packing low carbon steels in a crucible with carbon (charcoal) and heating to the correct temp the steel will absorb some carbon, and if quenched at the appropriate temp, will have a thin but hard surface while leaving the inner core soft and malleable.

This has a two part benefit; the hard outer surface provides wear protection with the softer inner core is better able to absorb shocks and resist cracking.

On medium carbon steels such as 4140, there is enough carbon within the steel for the steel to self harden i.e.. Heat to red and quench in the appropriate medium and the steel will be hard all the way thru. What you end up when you case harden med carbon steels is an extremely hard outer layer and a hard inner layer, no soft inner core to absorb shock and prevent cracking.

And as Steven brought up, the steel is no longer flexible.

The other issue I have with folks CCH 4140 steels and quenching in water is that SAE 4140 is an oil quench steel, it was designed that way. Quenching 4140 in water causes the steel to harden too quickly and in a non uniform manner; again with serious potential issues.

So again, just because something can be done, doesnt mean it should be done.

Ive turned down a lot of CCH jobs that involved 4140 or some mystery metal and I explain why, some heed my adviceothers find someone who will do it.

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tut Offline OP
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Seems like knowing exactly what the make up is of the steel utilized to make the actions would dictate what's truly possible. Wonder how forthcoming Winchester folks would be in Customer Service in finding out a truthful answer.

That is unless of course a board member knows for sure.


foxes rule
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