doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Pre WW2 Churchill Crown grade XXV in 410

Joe: That is a really cool little gun and a nice find. Have you shot it yet? I imagine with a 4 lb gun you might want to stay away from 3 in shells from a recoil perspective. I want to hear how it performs at skeet range. I think sometimes the English made some of their guns too light. I have a 5 lb 8 oz 20b I have killed game with but I have a tough time on the skeet field and even though it has perfect balance with 28 inch barrels, I find I stop my swing very easily. Have fun with your new outstanding find.

Buzz, I don't think the guns were made too light but that the standard cartridge load here in England is less than that in the U.S. .410 2" 5/16th. ounce and 2 1/2" .410 is 7/16th. ounce. 28 bore 9/16th., 20 bore 13/16th. and 16 bore 15/16th. Lagopus.....

Buzz,
I had a 4.5lb .410 hammergun that I used to shoot 3" shells through all the time (all ever shot through it). Recoil was never a problem. The little gun was an absolute terror on pen-raised poultry!
Steve

Rockdoc,

All I really get a chance to shoot near Charlotte are pen raised quail. A small, fast .410 will make it more fun and give the birds a fighting chance.
I do pretty good with quick (low MOI) guns. My style of shooting is mainly move-mount-shoot. I didn't know it was called "Churchill Style", until I bought the book.
Sadly, it is raining today. As much as I waited all week to go out at "give her a go", I'll wait for better weather.
My wife, (who said OK before I bought the .410), has decided that it is time for "us" to do some spring cleaning. I am back to the mop.

Cheers,

Joe

Joe,
If you send it to me here in sunny California, I'll take it out on some pen raised quail, chukar and pheasant and give you a full and complete report, no charge.

Spent a rainy afternoon out there today. What a spectacular addition to the museum. Its especially impressive when you consider how many high quality Peterson collection guns are currently floating around the market. The full collection must have kept a lot of dealers and auction houses in business for a few decades! I like the way they've set up the new section. The guns are much easier to see and appreciate than in the old fine gun room where the Parker Invincibles are displayed.

Hey, I'll give ya 5 bucks if you send it out to Kansas for a rooster run...

Rocketman will, indeed, wish to add said gun to the MOI database! Spring Southern it will be.

Buzz, not to pick on you, rather to suggest a different view point. You said, "I have a 5 lb 8 oz 20b I have killed game with but I have a tough time on the skeet field and even though it has perfect balance with 28 inch barrels, I find I stop my swing very easily." "--- even though it has perfect balance ---." Hmmmm, could I suggest that balance be used to mean the teeter-totter point relative to the (front) trigger and not used as a single word to try to sum up handling. Again, not to pick on you but to illustrate the illogic of "balance" as a summation of hamdling. How is it that a gun with "perfect balance" handles poorly on the skeet field? Joe gave the answer. He noted that his new gun has exceedingly light weight and low MOI (muscle effort needed to swing the gun/make it point in a different direction). Joe has a lot of experience shooting low MOI guns; he knows his MOI's because we have measured many of his guns. I can safely say that Joe has "touch;" he is able to shoot low MOI guns well on clays as well as game. Joe didn't mention the actual balance measurement of his gun as it is most likely not an issue for him. It is not uncommon for a person to shoot game relatively well with a lower MOI gun than he will have success with at clay games.

The view point I suggest is to think of handling dimensions in the same way as you think of stock dimensions. If you wish to know your gun's handling, weigh it, balance it, and compare it to the guns in my database until you can get it to a time & place where we can measure it. Just as you develop for yourself a personal set of stock dimensions, so will you want to understand what set(s) of handling dimensions suit you personally.

No offense meant, Buzz, but this is one of my soap box topics.

Questions?

DDA

Joe, Judy was right impressed with that little gun Thursday evening. I must also admit that I was also right impressed with it. It's a keeper and I bet it'll be fun to shoot.

Rocketman: No offense taken. My 5 1/2 lb 20 b balances on a string, or teeter totter about one inch ahead of hinge pin and feels good between the hands. It is not butt heavy nor barrel heavy. By teeter totter method, my close to 9 lb K-80 balances in a similar location. It also feels good between the hands. While it is not terribly difficult for me to shoot 100 straight skeet targets with the Krieghoff, it is very challenging for me to shoot 25 straight with the light little Holland, although I have on occasion....usually I average 22/25 or thereabouts with the lighter gun. When I miss the sight picture looks good, therefore I am assuming I am stopping the gun. In general, a light game gun is much more difficult to maintain consistency with and I would suspect Joe with his 4 lb shotgun would even have more trouble maintaining consistency than I do with my 5 1/2 lb 20 bore, certainly much more than I have with the 9 lb Krieghoff. I am very interested in your data base and would be thrilled to have you measure a couple of my guns and explain your system in greater detail. Thank you. Buzz