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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 121
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 121 |
You've gotten a lot of good info and some valid opinions... If the sleeving was done properly in England, the gun so marked and proofed, is there any disavantage to the sleeved barrels other than not being original? I've seen some ugly "sleevers" wearing English re-proofs. All the marks mean is the barrels didn't blow up on a particular day- they offer no guarantee of balance or regulation. All guns (including sleevers) need to be judged on their particular merits. If a sleeved or gun, or one in need of sleeving, suits your plans, aesthetic, and wallet, go for it. For my money, the poorest value will always be the gun with "borderline" barrels. YMMV
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
Quite simply it is a cost option.
You have a gun with useless barrels so you cant sell it or use it. Your options in order of expense:
You can re-barrel it in England.
You can re-barrel it in Spain or Italy.
You can sleeve it to the best possible standards and have a proper barrel maker strike it up like a pair of new barrels and TIG weld the join to make it invisible.
You can sleeve it to average standard.
You can sleeve it cheaply.
Whatever choice you make will affect the outcome and the subsequent value of the gun.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,156
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,156 |
The more expensive the gun to start with, the more value is affected by sleeving.
Sleeving is a practical, economical solution for getting more use out of older guns.
The better the sleeving work is, the better the bargain for the next owner.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,534 Likes: 95
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,534 Likes: 95 |
Please give us an example of someone 40 years ago who said a sleeved gun would self destruct in 25 years. It was a generaly held opinion of the trade .No one said that they would self destruct. It was simply that was how long people thought they would last . Some have'nt lasted that long others have lasted far longer . Some were done much better than others ,I have seen some realy bad jobs and some excelent ones . Like every thing else you got what you paid for ,some folk did'nt want to pay a lot.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,689 Likes: 32
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,689 Likes: 32 |
The very reason sleeving came into existance at all was because people didn't want to pay a lot. I was fortunate to know Mr. Christian Ashthorpe who is believed to be the inventor of sleeving, who sleeved a Mr. Herbert Sandals Purdey in 1948/49 for 15 which was about two weeks wages then. Interestingly enough Purdey moved hell and high water to stop barrels from being sleeved, but eventually they got Christian to sleeve guns for them.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 779 Likes: 38
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 779 Likes: 38 |
I am really impressed that the whole sleeving debate has moved on far enough that nearly every answer to this thread has been fair and reasonable. A few years back you would have got little but abuse and invective! In a way this is a good illustration of how the devaluing of sleeved guns has reduced to the point that a well sleeved gun is usually worth a lot more than one with sick tubes. The exceptions are with 20g and 28g guns which are often used with their original barrels long after they should have been retired. A high proportion of the guns I sell have been sleeved, usually TIG welded rather than soft-soldered, and I believe that, although each one is an individual, they all represent good value and are excellent shooters. Of course I could sell them for more with good, original barrels but then I would have to pay a shed load more for them in the first place so I can offer them for what I consider sensible money.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,008
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,008 |
Aren't "monobloc" barrels in essence sleeved?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,715 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,715 Likes: 114 |
Aren't "monobloc" barrels in essence sleeved? I don't think so, Gnoman; not exactly anyway. While the process is the same, the term "monobloc" would mean a single forging comprising the chamber areas for both barrels (as well as the lumps) into which the two barrels are attached, while most sleeved barrels would involve chopper lump or other froms of original barrel maunfacture which are cut off just past the chambers and the replacement barrels attached...Geo
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,008
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,008 |
Thanks, George - but the point I thought was key is that the "new" barrels of a sleeve job are mechanically equivalent to those on a monobloc.
I might be wrong on this but if sleeved barrels fail in 25 years, is it the original chopper lump art that fails or the join?
If it's in the join then why won't monobloc construction fail the same way?
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224 |
I think it's all BS. Use good glue and it will last forever. Only factory monobloc guns have been shown to be faulty, and they are glued with strange "stuff". Professionally sleeved guns have not been shown to fail, in my experience.
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