doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Henry Richards of London

I have a Henry Richards 10 gauge hammer gun which originally belonged to my great uncle. It has a London address, but I cannot find any information on this maker. Any leads are appreciated.

So Mills,what's the address on the rib. There was an American importer of W&C Scott guns that sold them under the Henry Richards name. Please provide complete legend. The only London Henry Richards I could find ceased business there in 1811.

At first blush, it sounds like a Belgian forgery playing on the English name Richards and a London address.

I look forward to pictures to get to the bottom of it.

Mills,
The Maker/seller of your was most likely Henry Richards of,51 Oldhall Street,Liverpool,active 1858-1870. London records of the era do not show a gunmaker by the name Henry Richards active after 1811.
It is remotely possible that Henry was a London Ironmonger[Hardware store] who sold Birmingham made guns engraved with his name.
Many guns of provincial origin are found with the top rib engraved," London fine Twist" [or Damascus,] This was a marketing ploy used by some provincial gun makers to imply that the gun was at least in part London made and thus justified serious consideration by any prospective purchaser.
Recommend that you post pictures of your gun including the Proof marks,we will then be able to confirm origin.

It is at the shop getting fixed, otherwise I would post pictures. I believe it states it was made in 1876, it has laminated steel barrels. The gunsmith said most of the parts were Belgium made but there was a Henry Richards gunsmith in London around 1876. Unfortunately, that was the extent of the information.

Mills,

Before you go too far with repairs ou might want to figure out its value. The repairs however small are likely to exceed te gun's value.

There are only 2 Richards guns that hold significant value . The ancient firm of W. Richards of Liverpool (who never marked a gun with any London address) and the newer firm of Westley Richards of London.

Numerous Belgian and American guns played on the goodwill and quality of those two firms with the intent to deceive. Probably the single most plagiarized name in all of guns is "Richards".

I'd love to see pictures of your gun when you get a chance.

I will post pictures when it comes back from the gunsmith. The repairs are not too bad (one of the hammers needs adjusting and the forend won't latch on). It also has sentimental value as my great uncle gave it to my father in law who gave it to me.

With the types of repairs you need, you should be okay. Looking forward to the pics.

I have a Henry Richards that I am restoring now. Very high quality sidelever hammer gun with London address on the barrels, Birmingham proofs. Will post pictures when I can.

Gil,please post the legend as it appears on the rib,thanks

All right. Over a year later, the gun is back from the gunsmith and I could not be more pleased. Here are some photos.

The Proof Marks on the barrel flats would prove a lot. Also one of the top rib showing the legend and a close up of one particular proof mark of a very small crossed sceptre mark (if it has one) would date it accurately. First glance leads me towards the Midland Gun Company of Birmingham early 1900's as the actual Maker; that is judging by the general style. They sold guns to the trade so they turn up with all sorts of names. Otherwise it is a good solid looking hammer gun. Certainly doesn't have a Belgian look. Lagopus.....

I was going to post pictures of my sidelever Henry Richards. I was recalling from memory when I posted to this thread a year ago when I said the proofs were Birmingham. They were actually Liege proofs, but the rib carried the London address. The engraving was very classy, perhaps a notch or two above the posted picture. And the gun was light with quality Damascus barrels. With Birmingham proofs it would have brought twice the price it did.
I talk about it in past tense because I sold it. Sorry I didn't post pictures.

Gil, I was hoping Mills would publish photos which could be interesting. Odd English gundealers would source barrelled actions from Belgium and often would source the barrel tubes. Don't forget that the new Purdey O/U is Italian in origin. My Japanese 4x4 made in England has a French engine. Guns are almost as quirky. Lagopus.....

Vorisek shows Henry Richards as a trade name used by WC Scott, WH Davenport, Pieper, Janssen, Dumoulin or Neumann Brothers at various times. With London on the barrels, I would discount the Belgians names in this list, as they were major players. Only a small time Belgian maker would put London on a gun.

There was also a Henry Richards that operated out of Cincinnati, circa 1880.


Pete

Here are some photos which should help

I do not understand the obsession with attributing British guns to being made of Belgian parts . Yes there were some barreled actions brought in from Belgium . Yes Belgian barrel tubes were imported in large quantity due to cost and the fact that the Belgians were still producing damascus up until 1939 .
As to the rest, men in Birmingham were as capable of producing crap as any continental and indeed did so . Other than the tubes which could or could not be Belgian I see no hint of any component of this gun that is not English .
Wild fowl guns of the period were not as rule other than basic quality and functional ,this seems better than a lot I have seen the fact that it has survived this long is its own testament .

The Modern Sportsman's Gun and Rifle: Including Game and Wildfowl Guns, Sporting and Match Rifles, and Revolvers
John Henry Walsh (Editor of The Field) 1882
http://books.google.com/books?id=OLwUAAAAYAAJ

I am indebted to Mr. Thos. Webley, who visited Belgium after the 1879 Trials, with a view to discover the reasons why the barrels forged there are more free from flaws than those made at Birmingham.
"We were, in common with our competitors, excepting for first and second quality, using a large proportion of these tubes; in fact, we think that quite three-fourths of the tubes used in Birmingham are Belgian make, and nearly all the London trade use them, with this difference, that they use the best quality, which are no doubt harder than the cheaper kinds, but are still softer and less durable than those of English make, and cost as much."

It appears what remain of a crown is on the left barrel just aft of the hanger, and was likely the Belgian tube maker's mark. The 'Laminated Steel' barrels are Twist BTW.

A bit earlier than I thought at first glance. Birmingham pre 1875 black powder proof marks. Quite low hammers for a gun of that age. A decent mid quality hammer gun and one to take out with some suitably loaded black powder cartridges and use to bag some game. Lagopus.....

Thanks for all the insight into this gun.

I have shot it with RST loads and it did just fine. I don't plan on shooting it very much, as my Parkers get most of the use. One of the hammers is a replacement