doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What happened to this one? Model 21

Good question Mike, I've often wondered the same. I see Larry's already weighed in, it'll be interesting to see more responses.

Steve

For me it is the same attraction as a Harley Davidson Motorcycle. Lots of shiney: shiney paint, shiney chrome, shiney windshield, big stout, heavy. The British 20 bore was meant to shoot a 3/4 oz load for it's daily diet even though it was typically proofed at 7/8 oz. The American 20 gauge was designed to shoot 7/8oz for it's fare but we can buy factory shells up to 1-1/4 oz. A stout heavy gun is needed for such aberrations.

I thnk that, in twelve gauge, the real sweet spot for the 21 is shooting clays. The twelve gauge is very heavy and it is very pleasant to shoot a couple hundred rounds of trap in an afternoon. A 21 has one of the two best and most reliable single triggers in horizon-posed-barreldom. The beavertail forend protects the hand from the heat and it is also very attractive and has lots of shiney surface area on it.

A 12 bore six and a half pound game gun throwing 1-1/8oz is very unpleasant to shoot for more than a box at clays. Certiainly very pleasant for game though.

I mean who doesn't like all those shiney black surfaces? And how could anyhone not like all that shiney mirror finished wood?

Now I have a British sidelock and a Birmy boxlock in twenty gauge, both with 28" barrels and below six pounds, that I really like for Bob White over my pointing dogs. And a sixteen bore, also under six. Really graceful, light, and well built.

But I have a Winchester Model 21 "Trap" grade in very nice condition. 32" barrels with factory ventilated rib, single trigger, beavertail forend, a muscular 8-1/2 pounds, and a non-typical straight grip stock. Oh she's a beauty!

My friend Gary, who is a real 21 officianado, can go on several minutes about the different ways to wax the 21's different surfaces and the advantages and disadvantages of each. Again the Harley analogy.

As Larry said I am sure that someone will chime in here that really likes them.

Best,


Mike

The same thing could be said for a 311, yet I don't see anyone going gaga over them. As for Mile's remark about all the black shiney surfaces, I supposed that's great if you're looking for a gun to use to give a salute at a friends funneral. Admittedly, my last view is very subjective. FWIW I'm not crazy about Harley Hoggs either, too much like a two-wheeled car. I like cycles that handle, if I can't throw sparks from the footpegs leaning through curves I don't want it.
Steve

As a person that has a love of English and M21, I will try to explain. First they are polar opposites as mentioned earlier. The attributes we hate on an English gun, the beatvertail, the pistol grip, the single trigger, a ventilated rib, look right at home on it. It works, and in the smaller bores can be quite racey. WS1 and WS2 are probably the finest shotgun choke borings known to man for all around upland bird shooting. I'd walk through a minefield for an original M21-20 ga that was straight grip, checkered but, vent rib 28" WS1, WS2 and I am sure many other M21 fans would do the same.

Its a Corvette in a world of Aston Martins and Morgans.

postscript: The rust blueing on M21 barrel is perfection, don't know where people are coming up that they are to shiny

Who's talking about the barrels, I'm talking about the blued frame.
Steve

Gotcha

Clif W, as a Morgan owner I like that analogy , as to shooting a lot of shells I�m not sure a UK gun is so bad, I did two 500 bird driven days last November back to back with 7 other guns, I was shooting a 6lb 2 oz 20 bore (skeleton butt stock made to my measurements) using 32 grams (1oz and a 1/16th I think, might have been 1oz or 30 grams) and I fired over 400 cartridges I guess, no pain ! I guess the Winchester name has kudos over there but if I was going "hell for stout" I�d rather have a Perazzi and for the money you chaps pay for those M21s I could get a decent second hand one, best, Mike p.s. not denigrating anyone State side, just puzzled though it is becoming clearer

Someone here always posts something about arguing taste but they do it Latin. Mike my Latin is not so good but here goes:

Youus canem nottus disputus tasteus.

I didn't take your post as belittling the brand.

Best,

Mike

American shooters may be more impressed with strength than grace. There's a model 21 catalog from the 50's that describes a 21 that digested 1000 proof loads without damage. The British competitors in the test were severely damaged.

Personally, I think a 16 gauge model 21 is hard to beat for upland hunting. It's built on a true 16 gauge frame (the 20 gauge is adapted to the 16 gauge frame). They seldom break.

John

For $3500 invested in repairs and restoration, and at this point a $5261 winning auction bid will make for a gun with a total cost of ownership of $8761.

The gun will probably be worth about $8500 at that point IF the barrels are not too thin after proper dent/gouge/scratch removal and refinishing.

So for taking on a tremendous amount of risk and unknowns, the lucky buyer may only lose about $261.

Let's all have a moment of silence and positive feelings collectively sent towards the high bidder.