doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Which Model 21 to Choose?

Looking at two Model 21s and can't have both. Primary purpose would be grouse hunting and some upland. One is the standard Skeet model with WS-1 & WS-2 chokes and beavertail forend. The other is choked IC & WS-2 and has a splinter forend. I'm thinking the more open chokes are better for my purpose, but if someone wants to argue in favor of IC & M, I'm listening. Opinions?

I had an old "one gun" fellow tell me 20 years ago that the WS-2 choke was deadly on pheasants. He had a M-21 12 gauge he used for everything.
In your case, both guns have that choke.
I like a splinter for field carry. They are lighter, more comfortable to carry, and it seems I can more quickly mount a splinter gun.

But, to each his own. If you like a beavertail better, go for it.

Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE

I think Sam is right - you really don't need the weight of a beaver even if it's only a few ounces. When you're shooting a splinter you hold the barrels, not the forend and I think it's easier and faster.

But that's just my humble opinion having almost solely shot splinters.

WS1/WS2 vs IC/WS2? Probably splitting hairs. Both likely are about perfect for grouse/WC cover. What gauge? WS1 in a 12 is often pretty close to IC, anyway. In the 20 or 16 WS1 will usually be just a bit more open than IC...but not alot more open.

WS2 is usually about a light mod in 20, 16, or 12 - and a great all-around field constriction.

Choose the gun you like better.

Sam

WS1, WS2 best M21 chokes ever. Go with the beavertail----only on a 21 though- you'll thank yourself later. 2 trigger or splinter 21's never sell well down the line. All guns get sold someday

I have a 1939 era M12- 28 ga. 28" solid rib barrel choked WS-2, and a friend has a 1950 era M12 28 gauge 26" plain barrel choked Imp. Cyl. They both pattern dead identically on paper with AA skeet laods- 30 yard circle 35 measured yards. The late Jack O'Connor in his 1965 Shotgun Book detailed the WS-1 and WS-2 chokes developed in the 1930's by WRA- and compares them as to amount of restriction and radius to the std WRA chokes- from full cyl. to full--

My only objection to the great M21 is their weight- 16 and 20's on the same frame, 12 and 3" 12 Duck models on the same frame- economy of scale in production perhaps, but not the same "in hands" feel of a fine SLE 12 bore- IMO!! But like the Model 12 and even the Model 1897, built to last forever-

I wouldn't choose based on the difference in chokes, but the difference in forends seems to matter greatly. Does one stock fit your measurements better? If so I would choose based on that, if not, I would get the forend you favor.

If all else is equal, I would get the lighter one.

I'll second this post. Always look at buying a gun from the stand point of selling it later. Very, very few guns are owned until "death do us part". Go with the WS-1 & WS-2 and the Beavertail on a 21. I am the first to scream when someone says that they just opened the chokes on "their" choke marked barrels, because most likely, it won't be theirs for more than a few short years, if that long.

21

If I own it for a hunting gun I will do as I please with the chokes, collector value be damned. I would go for the splinter forearm as long as it fits you well. The main issue I see is most ruffed grouse hunters tend to have their guns choked at Cyl, IC or IC, LM. Most though I know like the Cyl, IC choking due to the close range of shooting. If you are buying the piece as a collector/hunter then I would shop around until I found one that was choked more appropriatly. For an all around gun they are choked well IMO, but if your quarry is primarily ruffed grouse I would say move on unless the guns are not of collector value already and are just hunting guns anyways. I have a couple guns that are collectors but most of what I have are just shooters. I like them that way because I use the heck out of them and I don't need to worry about value. Remember if you are going to use it for hunting it is going to get scratched and dinged, as that is inevitable in the field. Good luck on your purchase!

Either guns will make a great versatile bird gun. If the patterns are too tight go to a spreader load. If you load your own use fiber wads without the plastic shot cup which will open up the pattern to the guns original pattern. If you choose the beaver tail forend and decide it is not what you want in a bird gun a good stock maker can make you up a forend that is more to your liking. Don't part with the original though because a beaver tail forend can add a premium if you decide to move it some day.