doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com False Hammer Guns

With the research we have been doing regarding Perrins I have been coming across variations of 'False Hammer Guns'. I imagine they evolved because there was a suspicion about hammerless guns being constantly cocked and therefore dangerous! Here are three Perrins variations and one by Fletchers of Gloucester. It would be interesting to know of other owners of these guns with different variations or devices for cocking/uncocking the hammers.

John

John,
I note the gamebird oval at the rear of all the Perrins and also the gundog. Is this an in house Perrins engraving design, do you think?
The birds look as though they could have been engraved by Harry Morris of Birmingham.

Unfortunately we don�t have any records � which would have told us so much. Without them I think we are only guessing. The basic guns only had a little scroll engraving, the mid range guns had a less detailed dog and a bird which we call the �Perrins Bird�, rather like plump partridge with a long beak and then the top quality guns had a much more detailed dog with recognisable pheasants and partridges. Any thoughts would be welcome.
I can't just find a close up of the 'Perrins Bird' but this is the less detailed dog and some kind of water fowl - bet they didn't have any truck with non toxic shot???
John

Just learned something new. Thanks for sharing.

No John, and neither do I.
I think the engraving has all the marks of Mr. Morris or even his mentor in Birmingham of course. I am good friends with Mr.Morris's last apprentice, Brian Wiseman. So I will let Brian have a look at the plates and let you know what he thinks.

I have a 14 gauge that I bought at auction. It is an external cocking, non-rebounding action.



WILLIAM MOORE & GREY 1865 PATENT 14-BORE ROTARY-UNDERLEVER SEMI-HAMMERLESS SIDELOCK NON-EJECTOR, serial no. 2351, probable conversion from muzzle loader (possibly number 1305), 29in. Damascus barrels, rib engraved 'WILLIAM MOORE & GREY, 43, OLD BOND STr. LONDON.', action incorporating Moore and Grey patent internal strikers with external cocking levers, F.H. Grey patent no. 2743 of 24th October 1865, best border and bold scroll engraving, 13 7/8in. well-figured stock, weight 6lb. 14oz.

Refurbished by Toby Barclay, Heritage Guns, April 2008

The Locks have all the bits you'd expect but lack a way to internally cock the hammers.





Joe

Joe
The photo of the Perrins with the cocking leavers like yours does not show that the hammers can be cocked by a leaver under the trigger guard - which also locks/unlocks the action. It is fairly stiff to operate when both hammers have been released. I guess the next step was to use barrel cocking.
What a cracking gun you have - i also have a 14 bore - what do you use to feed it with?
John

I haven't gotten around to actually shooting it. I have a few 14 brass hulls, a mix of modern and old. A friend did locate some 1950's era Ely paper shells. They were about $100 bucks a box of 25. I passed.
This gun requires you to never forget 1/2 cock.
The springs are massive. There is a small crack on the bridle alongside the top screw. You can make it out in the photo. Look at the top bridle screw near the firing pin.
Toby and I never noticed it until I did some close-up shots of the lock on half cock, when there is strain. The crack is nearly invisible when uncocked. I need to get that fixed before shooting her.
I also have a Charles Lancaster 14 hammer gun that I haven't shot. I don't have any photos of it to post.

This is a photo of me shooting it with B/P (Sorry - that was pretty obvious!!!)



And another of the action (appologies again as that is pretty obvious as well!!) But if you look carefully you will; see the locking mechanism is not standard - it is rectangulare block which slides into the breach face and the locking bolt slides over the top - still perfectly tight after all these years. I managed to get 2 boxes of 14 eley gastight. I shot one and kept one - reloaded the empties with B/P several times but theyare getting pretty tatty now. Then I got Rocky Mountain Cartridge to make me a few - they were a bit thick in the walls so didn't eject too well - then i found a supply of original brass cases so bought 100. They had the thicker rims so a freind turned them down and reemed out the primmer pocket to take modern primmers. They worked well but it was a fag using B/P all the time - so I started wrapping 16 bore cartridges in a little masking tape - only needs 1 1/2 turns to make a snug fit - worked so well that i had some thin metal sleeves fitted to the chambers so i can use 16 bore. This works great and we knocked some good birds down this year. It would be an easy job to return it to it's original 14 bore if needed.

These have been posted before, but it's kind of nice to have all in one place. First two are of two different Pauly guns from about 1811. These guns, both in rifle and shotgun, had a copper centerfire cartridge, internal hammers, and an exterior cocking lever. About 50 or more years ahead of most other outside cocking lever guns.





This is a William Moore and Grey gun with the Grey Patent. Cocking levers look like pinfire hammers, but the strikers and hammers are in the interior.