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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 543
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 543 |
E Thomas Jr- Chicago @1870 used the Harvey Latch in some of his Hammer Shotguns He is the only American maker to do so- that I have encountered. Bill McPhail
J W McPhail
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 582
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 582 |
When the fore end lever on my Manufrance Ideal is rotated (as previously noted) it moves forward away from the barrels; rotating the lever a full 180 degrees locks the forend in place on the barrels, which can then be removed. Makes it harder for me to lose the fore end.
Tolerance: the abolition of absolutes
Consistency is the currency of credibility
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,280 Likes: 211
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,280 Likes: 211 |
Here's a Harvey latch , somewhat commonly found on Baker Trap guns, although most used a Hackett design. Also, a Lefever clamshell latch, which is kind of pretty, if that's possible.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,533 Likes: 91
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,533 Likes: 91 |
If memory serves me correctly ,this is mentioned in British shotgun volume2 as being Wilkinsons patent . I dont hav the book to hand but will check when I do .
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,280 Likes: 211
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,280 Likes: 211 |
Gunman, I think your memory is correct. Mr. Harvey worked for,or at least listed the same address as Wilkinson. So maybe a tie in here. Oddly , I looked at the Harvey 1866 pat no. 1793 and could find no mention of a forend fastener of any type. Thus , I mentioned the Mathews patent [provisional] which seemed to include the forend topic.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11 |
CJO, David Baker Covers Fore end fastener Patents in his epic book The British Shotgun;These are to be found in Volume 1 pages 119,204&205;and in Volume 2, pages 138-145.All of the patents seen in the posts are covered. By comparison, W.W. Greener in the 9th edition of his book,The Gun," devotes less than half a page to fore end fasteners he dose however illustrate and name the Grip Fore-end."
Roy Hebbes
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 869
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 869 |
Daryl, that is a little jewel on that Lefever.
Ms. Raven
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,945 Likes: 206
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,945 Likes: 206 |
It seems that everyone is dancing around the origin so no one has a copy of the 1866 Harvey British patent; it doesn't exist; or the patent is vaguely covered depending on interpretation? Or is the term Grip Fore-end a moniker with multiple sources and like the Roux Underlever we are on a rabbit chase?
Kind Regards,
Raimey rse
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,280 Likes: 211
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,280 Likes: 211 |
Raimey, here's a copy of the 1866 Harvey Patent , in a synopsis form. I could find no mention of a forend fastener, but there was a cam for closing. What do you think? Note that the diagram on the second page is for another different patent.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 52
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 52 |
To quote Donald Dallas in his book "The Brirish Sporting Gun and Rifle"*,"Out of all the patents[1870's and 1880's]three rose to prominence, two of them still being used to a large extent today. The first of these, an inert lever, the 'grip catch', was very common in the 1870's, but it fell into disuse after this decade, when the more convenient snap fore-end took over. The grip catch was patented by Charles Harvey, an employee with Wilkinson & Son of 27 Pall Mall, London in patent no.1793 of 7 July 1866. A Lefaucheux type forward facing lever turned a screw grip turret in the for-end to engage with a bite on the barrel loop very similar to Henry Jones 1859 underlever. It was handsome, unobtrusive and secure and was used by many makers notably Horsly of York and Rigby of London to the extent it is often termed the 'Rigby lever fore-end'."
As a note I have a pair of 1894 custom made Boss & Co. sxs's with 'grip catches'. plus 3 H&H rifles that use them for the durability.
* "The British Sporting Gun and Rifle", Donald Dallas, Quiller Publishing Press. London 2008.
"In my GSP I do trust"
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