doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shallow Frames vs Deep Frames-whats it all about?

I haven't heard anything here that has changed what I thought before.

The recoil line of force is unaffected

Taller receivers simply lower the triggerplate and trigger group, possibly lowering the grip hand slightly.

The low profile of the Cynergy is a result of how it's hinged, not how it's bolted.

It's bolted similar to an Italian action, with pins instead of a wedge in a notch like a Superposed.

The bolt pins are in the lower part of the action face, vrs. the upper part like a Beretta.

Instead of the trigger group being lower, it could also be looked at as everything else sticks up a little higher. I think if the top barrel lines up the same with both styles, it just due to stocking. I think if the action sits a bit higher than the trigger hand, then I feel the muzzle rise a bit more, or to line things up the trigger finger has to point down more. There're good ones of both types, but the packaging seems a lot tidier with the shallow frame.

Craig,
I disagree. When shooting, our line of sight is established by stock style/dimensions, your body configuration, and shooting style. The relationship of the bore centerline to the line of sight is established by the rib/bore centerline.

Hi Chuck,
I'd imagine a bunch of different things come into play. If it comes to shooting, I'd assume everything was put together as a gun and not just a barrel with a rib on it. To be honest, I'm not sure what a rib/bore center line is. Would body configuration and shooting style relate back to stock fit, not just style/dimension.

Anyway, I figure, off the rib or bore or whatever, stock dimensions could be measured and seem similar. How it emerges out of the action and where the force of firing a shell pushes on the stock might be very different, and affect styles, preferences and result.

If the stock can be taken out of the equation, then it may matter how the metal work is arranged and distributed. Just conversation Chuck. The two different over under frame styles seem to be unique to me and some guns seem to bring it all together a little better than others.

I fail to see how Doverham concludes that the eye and the pointing hand is in a different relationship when using a shallow receiver gun than when using a deep receiver gun. Assuming a similar forend configuration and similar drop of comb and heel, the relationship should be identical whether shooting a Boss or a Merkel. Some deep receiver guns handle like crap, but it isn't because of the basic design, it is because of the configuration, especially the grip configuration, of the individual gun.

Yeh, I Think Zutz would agree with Doverham. I've had a few Supers and Citoris and I have a Merkel stacker. If the bottom plane of the forend is a continuation of the ventral line of the receiver, then an example with a relatively deep receiver also has a relatively larger distance between bottom of forend and top rib or top of top barrel. If you put the hinge pin and lug down under rather than using side trunnions, how could this be otherwise? But this is all old hat and we're boring Jerry V.

jack

I have Berettas. I have a Cynergy. I have a K-20.

Guess which gun I vote for as having the best overall dynamics, bar none? At least bar none that I can afford... let's call it the best dynamics for a production 2-shooter.

Browning XS Sport in 20ga. with 30" barrels. 7 pounds on the nose. Obviously, this is derived from the 20ga. Super, but it's a good bit lighter and lighter than the other Citori models in 20, but heavier than a Superlight.

It's just a spectacular handling gun, old style tall frame and all.

Jonesy,
Similarly, my 525 32" 20ga at 7lbs even is probably the best handling clays gun I've ever shot.

Forend design is indeed important, if we're concerned about the hands in line deal. A shallow frame gun can have a fat beavertail, which adds depth (and width) to the barrels. In contrast, looking at a deep-framed gun like the Merkel, they usually have a lot less forend wood. Then there's always the stock design, which raises the rear hand a bit if it's straight, in comparison to a gun with a PG.

As jones suggested, what works for a given individual may be a gun with a deep frame or a shallow frame. I'm not much of an OU fan, but I had a Cynergy Lightning Feather 28ga for field test, and shot that gun extremely well. Might have bought it, but I'm a fan of more classic designs.