doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com French Shotgun, any info?

The Helice patent had been around for a while.





Brevete was a shortened patent application process the French used for a time.

Crochets Encastres means the hook is braised to the action.

It would really help if the pictures of the barrel markings were in focus.

Pete

The bad news is you haven't hit the jackpot on value on your old gun. The good news is it is likely a pretty good old shooter.
It is a generic French boxlock, built post 1900, as it was proofed with smokeless powder T, that came into use at that time. The chambers are about 2 1/2, they can be safely lengthened, usually, or you can just use short ammunition. Since these guns tend to be light, light loads help reduce the pounding on old wood, and your shoulder. I'll bet it's choked tight (most French doubles are) but, that can be changed also.
These seem to run $250-$600 or so, just good solid old guns for upland use. If it fits you, keep it, and go hunting. If it doesn't fit you, you can have the stock bent or extended/shortened, depending on your needs, and still go hunting.
I don't know who built it, and if it was mine, I might not care. I haven't seen a French double that hasn't been up to snuff yet, if it was used as intended, typically light upland use with more walking, then shooting, on the docket.
Do enjoy it. I know I would.


Best,
Ted

Hello bldmaghead
Come to Amarillo, bring the gun and we will shoot yours and mine side by side (pun) and have a great time. I will provide the special ammo if you have none.
Mike

I have a similar gun, in 16 gauge, and concur wholeheartedly with what Ted said upthread. These French guns carry well all day and shoot well. The price/value will depend most on the condition of the bores. For some reason, a lot of these guns have pitted bores - probably b/c of being made in the days of corrosive primers and being used in the relatively damp climate of France.

The names engraved on the bottom ahead of the trigger guard are usually the name and town in France of a sporting goods/gun retailer. The retailer would contact the manufacturer (directly or through intermediaries) and order a certain number of guns done to a certain level of finish. They could come with the retailer's name on it. It would be like a shotgun engraved "Skeettx Hardware Amarillo" or "Cabela's Scarborough, Maine" or something like that. The possibilities in that regard are close to endless.

Properly cared for, the gun will outlive you and the rest of us.

Very good info given above. "Helice" was patented by Verney-Carron, a French gunmaker that's very much still in business. Refers to the bolting system, as explained by Pete's diagrams above.

Highly unlikely that the name on the bottom of the gun was the maker, but rather the retailer as Dave points out. What you have is what's often referred to as a "guild" gun, made by outworkers in the trade in St. Etienne. Same system existed in Liege, Belgium; Suhl, Germany; and Birmingham, England--although the Brits usually put a "maker's" name on the gun, even if all the "maker" really did was finish it, or maybe just sell it.

Ted's probably a little low on price, although French guns are still a bargain. And the "Helice" system guns are solid as rocks.

Ted's not off on price one little bit:

http://www.gunsinternational.com/BELGIUM-FELAG-ARMS-16GA-BOXLOCK-DOUBLE.cfm?gun_id=100244242


Larry is living in the past, common problem for the elderly.
Best,
Ted

Don't be put off by the Frenchies. They are light weight for gauge, handle nicely and shoot where you look. And the French invented the break action shotgun among other things. Sometimes it seems they've been standing around for a couple of centuries waiting for someone else (the Brits) to eat their lunch; perhaps a genius for design doesn't always accompany a genius for international marketing which pushes the myth of ultimate quality attached to a few maker names. So it's not a "value added" collector shotgun, Who cares! Don't pass up a Charlin if you find a solid one. Or the wonderful "Ideal" from Manufrance "Bike & Gun". Good luck with your find and notice that you've been told to put it back in service rather than sending it to Merry Oulde Angleland to be reproofed.

jack

The Bruchets laughed at me when I suggested re-proof for my R10 that had seen a massive backbore at some point prior to my ownership. I was in town to have it restocked, do some club shooting, look at French girls and drink like fish with Herv� and Richard Levi, of G. Grangers. I ate some cheese, too.
There is a low spot that has about .060 wall thickness, but, most of the barrels were hanging around .090. "Shoot little shells in it, if it makes you feel better", they cackled.
I impressed hell out of them when I drank beer with dinner, instead of Coke, and the native Irish girl at the bar took an interest in me. Helped that my Mom's name was Eileen...
Sorry to pick on an old man, Larry, but, the guns that sell, as opposed to being listed for decades on end, go for right around that. Spanish boxlocks, too.

Best,
Ted

Pick all you want, Ted--but we'll agree to disagree on this one. First of all, since when did Belgium and France become the same country? Without knowing a lot more about that Belgie you linked . . . well, to start with, it ain't a Helice gun. And I agree that Spanish boxlocks do sell for $450. And many of them that sell for that price go back to the days when they had problems with soft parts. Newer Uggie boxlocks will sell for more than that, as will AyA 4's. But I definitely don't put Helice guns in the same category as the old soft part Spaniards. Neither should anyone who knows very much about European doubles. You can pay that for a Pride of Spain if you wish, Ted. I'll save my money and snap up any decent Helice I can find for $450. And if I don't decide to keep it, I'll sell it and make a few $.

Now if you'd looked under French doubles on GI, Ted . . . darn (or maybe in your case, Darne), but those of us with more experience sometimes have to help the youngsters stay on top of things, like the fact that the Belgians aren't French even though they do speak the language. Anyhow, you would have found a couple Robusts: 12ga, $775; 16, $1200; and a Breuil 16 for $1250. All boxlock extractor guns, like the Helice. (I'll readily admit those prices are on the high side, except maybe the Robust 12.) There are a couple listed in the $500 or under range, but they appear far more used in the photos than does the poster's Helice gun.

Well, actually there are 3 official languages in Belgium: Dutch, French & German, with English close to an unofficial 4th. As to the same French in Belgium and France, the Parisians would not agree, sorry to say. The Walloon "accent" is very strong in Liege. Brussels is a different story.

Pete