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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
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Pooch, I'd say 7500 psi is a reasonable upper limit for that gun, once it's back on face.
Re the A&N records, they're great. I paid for everything on an A&N pair I used to own, but that information did not include original chamber length. No big deal in that particular case, because those were guns from the 30's and marked 2 1/2".
Pooch, if you can post a shot of the barrel flats, or at least tell us everything that's marked on them, we may be able to help a bit more re dating the gun. Sounds as if the chambers might have been lengthened in the States. Assuming it's original 2 1/2", it would have had to undergo reproof if lengthened in England. One trick there is that the Brits use .800 chamber reamers. Ours are .797. So if you determine it's been lengthened and a .800 plug gauge stops short, you know it was done in the States.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
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I'm hoping the gun might still be in proof. But instinct tells me otherwise. Looks like the makings of a good gun despite being out of proof.
The gun is not a pre 84. There is something I'm not seeing. I've still got the gun on lay away so I haven't examined the barrel flats that closely as I had assumed the chamber was extended because of the amateurish work done. But now it appears the previous owner was too lazy to do serious damage so my hopes are up.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
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I'm looking at the barrel flats on my 1927 William Evans, nitro proof 1 1/8th oz, no mention of chamber length,
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
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Should the chamber be a bit undersize, not uncommon on older guns, & be only .001" smaller at the end than the diameter of the gage, the gauge will show it about .200" short, which it isn't.
Better check your math there. Or your source. I seems to remember another regular came up with this error when telling how to measure chambers with a machinist scale. Well the Chamber of a shotgun has a taper of approximately .005" per inch. Therefore if the gage dia is .001" larger than the small end of the chamber it will stop short by .001"/.005" which = .200". I worked 35 years as a machinist & am quite familar with measuring things. I observed this by actual hands on experience, not Heresay. I had in fact built a set of chamber gauges for 12, 16 & 20ga guns, but after encountering this "Problem", I no longer use them much preferring my old Starrett 6" scale. If you see a problem with this math "PLEASE" do explain it, for I see none at all. I in fact once had to measure the end dia of a cone to very close tolerances. As I had bored the taper & knew the exact angle I did the measurement by building a plug to a known dia to fit the spindle of a depth Micrometer & then measured how far it would enter the cone. This was a matter of math & trig, but you don't need the trig to measure the length of a chamber. It is in fact quite Elementary. Yes quite Elementary. Chambers have an INCLUDED TAPER of about .005 per inch of run. That means the taper from the CENTERLINE of the chamber. Therefore the DIAMETER of the chamber reduces by 2X that, or about .010 " per inch of run. Using your formula it would stop short by .100 ", and not .200 ". I hope this puts to rest the bad scoop posted here a while back. Nitro; "INCLUDED" means the total taper, Both sides. This is Extremely easy to check out by looking at a set of chamber drawing dimensions. If as you say the .005" were for only one side then over the length of a 2 3/4" chamber the rear would be .0275" larger. "IT AIN"T" its only about half that amount or .005" per inch on the Dimeter, not on the Radius. So Yes my .200 is absolutely 100% "Corect". Again quite Elementary, no Rocket Science involved. You best go back to math 101, as your mis-calculations are what needs put to Rest.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709 |
I'm looking at the barrel flats on my 1927 William Evans, nitro proof 1 1/8th oz, no mention of chamber length, Is it chambered 2 1/2? Does yours by chance have intercepting sears? Reason I ask, W Scot was making boxlocks for both William Evans and A&N in the 20s. They could be similar guns.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,573 Likes: 165
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,573 Likes: 165 |
I'm looking at the barrel flats on my 1927 William Evans, nitro proof 1 1/8th oz, no mention of chamber length, Mike, are you sure of the date? I find the following, under "Rules of 1925": "In addition to caliber designation, breechloaders were now required to indicate chamber length."
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 866
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 866 |
I noticed that anomaly as well Larry, but assuming the serial number dates are accurate,the action and barrels may have been proofed in the white just before the 1925 rules came into use at the proof house.I have a MacNaughton RA with damascus barrels that has one set of original nitro proof marks which date the proofing to 1896-1904 yet the serial number dates the gun to 1922!!
Nothing ever written in stone...
Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought stupid,than open it and confirm.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,573 Likes: 165
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,573 Likes: 165 |
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709 |
I finally got my "wall hanger" out of lay away. It turns out the A&N gun has London proofs and not Birmingham, that's what has been throwing me. On the flats is the 12 with a C below it in the diamond so it appears to have been proofed prior to 1925 indicating an original chamber exceeding 2 1/2". So the barrels are still in proof. The screws I thought to be stripped are not. My $200 "wall Hanger" is looking like a gun with some potential.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 866
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 866 |
Pooch, 12 over C in a diamond covers 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" so technically unless otherwise marked,there is no way of knowing whether it started life as either. Probably why they started marking chamber length after 1925.... I assume there are no nitro proof marks??
Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought stupid,than open it and confirm.
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