doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com C&R Question

Chuck,

I've been told by CA dealers that CA law requires a class 1 FFL for transfer of any shotgun (and I think any firearm) capable of firing a cartridge -- whether it's 50 years old, made before 1898, or whatever. I also asked the NRA at a gunshow; they didn't know and phoned an "expert" whose answer was also "not cartridge capable."

However, I've also been told by a CA dealer that he'd honor a C & R license.

I've also asked a cop, and a detective separately, questions on interpretation of CA gun laws they couldn't answer.

There's lots of confusion about CA gun laws and I don't think it's even remotely accidental. It's deplorable but I can't blame dealers for being extra-careful.

Fred, I have a C & R license and I have carefully read the California law and nowhere does it say that, as a matter of fact when you purchase a shotgun from a 01 FFL in this state there is no record of the firearm that goes to DOJ, only information about you and of course the 25-30 dollars the state gets + the amount the dealer gets. I did go to the trouble of getting a COE from DOJ which they issued to me as a collector?? I guess this is what happens when laws are made by politicians.

I recently bought a C & R shotgun from a well known California dealer, it was shipped directly to my C & R license without further questions.

The Feds gave me a Firearms Curios and Relics List with my C&R. It lists all of the firearms you can get with your C&R. All L.C. Smiths, Parkers, Foxes are covered, plus some more modern, but deemed collectable firearms. If in any doubt, consult this list. The People's Republic of California is weird, but I don't think they can go around Federal Law.

California law will let a dealer in California sell to a person out of state that has a C&R, but not to a person with a C&R that lives in California. I have bought from Ivory Bead's in California before with my C&R.

One of the main reasons to have a C&R instead of an FFL ( besides the excellent explanation given above) is that in order to have an FFL you must have an actual storefront with listed hours of operation. I believe this requirement is fairly recent, last 10 years or so. I knew guys that used to have FFL's but no store, they were able to buy and sell guns as a side business.

BTW, to all C&R holders. Midway USA gives C&R holders the same dealer discount as FFL holders. It varies on items, not much discount on ammo but I recently bought a patternmakers vise and saved 25% ($62 vs. $82).

Brownells won't do that, nor will Midsouth, but Midway really has a lot of the same stuff plus reloading supplies, etc. FYI. Just call them to open an account and fax them your C&R.

Rob

Ithaca16,
I don't know where you got this information. I read the Calif DOJ regs and like Dave Barry, I saw nothing in the regs about this. I've purchased with my C&R from Cal dealers with it also. I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about C&R's and people are willing to forward on heresay on the subject which adds to the confusion.

By the way, Jim at Ivory Beads is the one that recommended I get a C&R so he didn't have to do the transfers for me.

Those same "Feds" should also have given you a sheet explaining that any other firearm not specifically included in the panphlet but that can be prooved to be over 50 years old is also eligible. It's a standard attachment to the C & R pamphlet/
listing. The biggest majority of European firearms will not be on the listings, but that does NOT mean they are not C & R eligible. If you believe that you only can buy those firearms that are specifically listed, you are eliminating the major portion of firearms that have been made available to C & R licensees. All you have to do is prove the age of the gun, and the burden is on you to do that. It's not too difficult to accomplish in most cases.

To start with Mitch's question, if his observation is true, the answer is ignorance on the part of the seller. There are also lots of FFL holders who "know" lots of wrong things about the BATF rules. Like insisting that a gun they are receiving for transfer from another state come from an FFL holder. Not so. But there are some who insist on it. My local FFL holder insists that I can sell to, or buy from a private party in another state without using an FFL holder on the receiving end. Wrong again! He also believes if the gun comes from a dealer in another state, he needs that dealer's FFL copy. Wrong again.
Every time someone asks a question regarding FFL, BATF rules or C&R procedures here, instead of going to the website and finding out for himself, as he should, he'll get six different answers to his question. At least 5 of them have to be wrong, maybe all six.
As Chuck, who has a C&R license and considerable experience with it said, throwing hearsay information into the mix only muddies the water.
Go to the websites and read for yourself. Don't take the lazy way out and rely on others who may know even less than you about the subject.

Chuck H:
It is my understanding that The Peoples Republik of New Jersey does NOT recognize C&R licenses. I have a friend who applied for one while living there and was told he was wasting his time by the BATF as that State wouldn't recognize it!!
Jim