doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Generic British Boxlock vs W. Richards Droplock

Lindner Dalys beat them all.

All the A&D pros, none of the cons.


OWD

Worth the premium. This is where we get to the sticky point of price and justification etc.

William Powell, the "Purdey of Birmingham" offered the Famars droplock under their name, for 5000 pounds sterling. The WR droplock sold for much more. The premium was for the higher quality or the name, or a mix of both, who knows.

There is a stunning article by Bruce Owen, former production manager of Purdeys published in Shooting Sportsman about 12 years ago. Owen details the use of CNC machines in best gunmaking, how it has forced an improvement in steel quality (in "best" guns!!!), tightening of tolerances (again in "best" guns!) and economical advantages through inventory reduction and production speed. POndering whether any of these advantages were passed on to the client, Owen notes that this is a matter for the marketing departments. Nice sidestep but inevitable implications!

With Owen's comments in mind, I get suspicious over the words "premium" and "best". Best was for years said to be a gun that combined the best materials and workmanship available, something Own contradicts. There were better materials available but the "best" makers used those that were amenable to their antique production methods. In fact they did not go over to quality steels till the 1980s. The Italians had done so much earlier.

I have had my droplock since 1983. I am still trying to figure the engineering sense of a solid cross pin and how it sits unsupported by any action metal at the front. The unsupported cross pin is found on cheapo folding guns that we gun snobs deride.

Accesibility can be achieved by unscrewing a stock bolt, as per Perazzi MX12 and 20, with no need for detachability. Something impossible in a traditional gun, due to grip screws, another one of those quaint traditional tortures that command a premium.

"I have had my droplock since 1983. I am still trying to figure the engineering sense of a solid cross pin and how it sits unsupported by any action metal at the front. The unsupported cross pin is found on cheapo folding guns that we gun snobs deride.

Accesibility can be achieved by unscrewing a stock bolt, as per Perazzi MX12 and 20, with no need for detachability. Something impossible in a traditional gun, due to grip screws, another one of those quaint traditional tortures that command a premium "



I would certainly prefer a removable hinge pin but in reality I don't feel it is a big deal. According to Vic Venters in an article on Westley Richards, the size of slot required for the detachable locks prevent the use of a removable hinge pin. If the solid hinge pin has been serious a weak point in the WR detachable boxlock design I would have thought it would have shown up by now given the length of time the WR design has been in service. As for the accessability to the internals provided by the throughbolt design. It's kind of an inelegant way to provide accessability to the internals & doesn't work well with a long tang trigger guard. It does make for a strong attachment of stock to action & works OK for heavy target style guns but I've never seen a SxS or a O&U hunting type gun using a throughbolt attachment of the stock that wasn't unnecessarily thick & clumsy through the wrist (Browning Superposed might be one possible exception but is not in my mind ideal).

Worth the premium depends on how much value you put on all the nice little details. I've handled a couple of the A&S Famars hand detachable boxlocks (Called Tribute I think) & to me they fall quite a bit short of most WR hand detachable boxlock guns & epecially the latest WR efforts. Kind of like the difference between a Nissan 370Z & Porsche Carrera S. Both are nice, one is nicer but it costs more money. Just depends on how much nice it takes to make you happy & how much you are willing to spend.

My beautiful WR was made in 1890, so no droplocks. I can confidently say that it is of such a high quality that it was put together to the same high standards as it's younger brothers the droplocks were.

I don't get the doll's head being unsightly, nor do I get it presenting a problem when loading.

Please understand I'm not trying to pick a fight - it's only the email words that convey that attitude.

I just really love my Westley Richards 12 bore.

They are considered more difficult to reload in the heat of a typical English driven shoot. They probably are, but, few of us Americans need to worry about that. What we typically partake in is known as "rough shooting" over there, and is more deliberate.
I've developed a real distaste for tumblers (hammers, to us yanks) with integral strikers (firing pins) since witnessing one break, and seeing the bill for the construction/repair of another. Neither were droplock guns, but, the idea of a striker breaking in all that damascened glory would be eye (and, wallet) opening, to say the least. A thing of beauty is a joy forever, or, at least until it's broken. Then, it sucks.
My "gee-wiz" era is much behind me, I'm afraid. My preference is toward a sound A&D boxlock, sans ejectors, or single triggers of any type, but, especially English single triggers, and equipped with disc set strikers. If you have the tool and a spare pin, you are pretty much money for most shooting you will encounter, over here.
A better traveling gun may not have been invented.

Best,
Ted

Ted, amen on English single triggers best, Mike

I find it interesting that everyone assumes that all droplocks have doll's heads and C-type top bolts. My droplock, made in ~1949 has a Purdey bolting system and a normal Scott spindle. It also has a filed rib and double triggers. It is lovely. My only gripe is that it has 26" barrels, but I am quite happy with it. Ted, is correct about breaking a striker since I suspect the cost would be killer. A new set of locks was quoted at 3500 pounds.

When you say "a Purdey bolting system" is it a hidden third fastener? How about ejectors?
I understand you could order anything you would pay for, and that gun sounds unique. Do you have any pictures-I'd love to see them.
I always laugh when I hear the stories about "losing" a detachable lock-Der Klunkermeister, R.I.P. once opened his sliding breech Darne over deep water, a gun that sounds like it may have needed some adjustment, as he dropped the breech into the water, never to be seen again!
If the breech slides off your Darne when you open it, it needs to be fixed. Ditto if the locks fall out of your Westley!

Best,
Ted

It is a Purdey sliding double bolt, no 3d fastener of any variety. It was built for a gun dealer in Georgia and shipped in 1951(hence the short tubes, open choke and filed rib?).

I don't have good picture of the action handy.

Re. WR hand detachable boxlocks w/o a dolls head & C Type bolting I think most of us are aware that WR built them as well as well as some nondetachable lock actions with C Type bolting w/o the Purdey style underbolting (a good demonstration of how much strength the C type bolting adds) but when I think of a typical WR hand detachable boxlock it has the C type bolting as they are currently built.

Re. lost hand detachable locks of WR & all other types. It's (usually) operator error not a design problem! To quote the comedian Ron White "You Can't Fix Stupid".