doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com VARNEY CARRON 16 GA. SxS

Good Morning all, I have a VARNEY CARRON double trigger,side by side in 16 gauge. Barrels are 26 3/4 and I presume Mod & Full. serial 43188---It was made in St. Ettenne France and has proofed steel barrels. I was curious as to the value. It is in top mechanical condition, engraving is sound and visable, but finish is worn thin. I have excellent pictures but do not know enough of this site to include them. email is 18larry01@gmail.com should anyone be interested in this gun. Thanks, Larry Austin, Florida+
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I'm pretty sure you mean a "Verney Carron". What I can tell you without pictures included is, It is a decent gun, but, being French, with barrels that are an unfashonable length, and 16 gauge, you aren't going to retire on the proceeds.
I'd bet, but, can't prove from here, tight bores and chokes and short chambers also, by the way. Not big selling points, but, one can work around them. There is little pent-up demand for French doubles in this country.
Good Luck. One can do a lot worse than a French gun.

Best,
Ted

Larry,
I see it's your first post and already you've been given a "snow-job" by Ted3000.
The fact of the matter is...26 3/4 barrels are the most sought after barrel length...near every French SxS you see has 27 3/4 barrels and it's rare to find the shorter upland bird length barrels.

Ted3000 knows full well that he could have simply posted two links that would capture your interest for days, but instead he chooses to pump up his own ego with some pompous quasi-expert nonsense.

Please excuse his nonsense

The answer he should have posted looks like this...

Please see these two links for materail related to your Verney Carron, then refer back to this website for any remaining question you may have...and welcome to this bulletin system.

see
http://www.gournetusa.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=179&SearchTerms=verney

also see
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20t%20w/a%20verney%20caron%20fr.htm

Why, little bob, how helpful of you to post all that information on Verney Carron-IN FRENCH!

Do us a favor, and translate it all for our new poster, would you?

How helpful do you think you have been with all that? Or do you actually believe he can retire on the proceeds from this gun? Do tell.

You are, per usual, wrong, on what barrel lengths are actually SELLING, on double guns HERE, in the US, at THIS TIME. Sellers pretty regularly get hammered on short barreled doubles, even if there is nothing actually wrong with shorter lengths. You know that, and have posted otherwise. Typical. So typical of you.
Feel free to document who wants those short barreled doubles, m� petit� bob. Or your own translations of the French catalogs-we've all, hilariously, seen that here before.

Best,
Ted

Larry, why sell it? They're excellent guns and like Ted said very few people realize how good French guns are over here!!!

Larry, I'm the owner of a 16 ga French double. Not a Verney-Carron ("VC"), but still nice. I like mine a lot.

The French made and make very nice, solid guns. They tend toward lighter guns that are made to carry a lot and shoot a little, i.e., hunting guns. Being relatively light, you don't want to be shooting hundreds of rounds at a clip through them b/c you will feel it. If the gun is older, the gun (and particularly the wood) will, too. Still, the French make them pretty and their craftsmanship is usually first-rate. For VC, that is almost always true.

VC guns are, IMHO, one of the better "makes" out there. They seem to hold their value and are a recognized "name", even in the States. Not a lot of people know about them, which hurts when trying to re-sell one. The issue with value of your gun is twofold: condition and how ornate. To give an idea on your gun, we need pictures. The number one thing, re condition, is the interior of the bores. For whatever reason or combination of reasons, older French guns seem to be prone to pitting. I think it's a combination of being made in an era of corrosive primers, the relatively damp climate of France, and the chemistry of the steel. Just clean carefully and immediately after use. Depending on how ornate the engraving is and the quality of the wood, if your gun is rust-free and in overall good shape, value could be between $300 for a plain farmer's gun and $3000 for a first-rate one.

As to the "short" 26 3/4 inch barrels: currently, longer barrels are in fashion (yes, there is such a thing as fashion in guns) and shorter barrels tend to get lower prices as a result. French guns have their barrels in metric lengths - yours is probably 68 cm. As noted above, a 70 cm length is the most common. 68 are less common. But, I think you'll see that does not detract from and, indeed, enhances the gun's utility for hunting in close quarters. I love mine - which has 70 cm barrels - for grouse.

A couple of the things Ted noted are relevant. Pre-WWII French guns almost uniformly have 65 mm (2.5 inch) chambers. This is not as much of a problem as formerly, as 2.5 inch shells are now readily available from several makers. They also tend to be choked tight. Likewise, Chambers' references to Gournet and to littlegun are helpful, if you read French. Gournet is pretty authoritative on French guns (but, IIRC, he writes like a guy writing English when his first language is French). Verney-Carron's website does have an English language page and you might (stress "might") be able to get some information from them.

Also as noted above, the vast majority of people here in the States have little idea how good a value French guns are, which suits me just fine. This won't help you if you're trying to sell one, but that's the way it is.

If Ted or Chambers if it seemed to you that they were coming across strong. Each of them can be that way some days. All of us can. Both of them were trying to help. Ted is also quite authoritative on French guns - IIRC he used to be an importer for one of the other French manufacturers, has been to the factory and St. Etienne any number of times, and IIRC also speaks the language. I have no intention of offending anyone. Most of us here are quite pleasant most of the time.

Also, since your gun is a 16 ga, you should cross-post your pictures and inquiry at 16ga.com, the home of the 16 Gauge Society. They have a lot of knowledge on these guns and, if you're so inclined, on reloading for them. Even short shells.

Welcome to the site, BTW.

I concur completely with Dave in Maine in that French guns can be a pleasure. I believe them a great value for the dollar as they do not carry the same demand as British guns, or even the better know Italian or Spanish guns.

Dave is right that you should verify the chambers to ensure you use the correct length shell

Please post pictures to include the proof marks.

Larry Austin here from Sunny Florida; I might add that I bought this gun at a gun show bare; No Stock; I have been playing for over six months and have the wood 90% fitted. Planning to add a cheek piece shortly and then sand and finish( if I do not sell it first) Request is in for pictures which will go today. Thanks for the interest. First time I heard of a 2.5 inch shotgun shell and for conversation interest, how do I measure this specifcation. Thanks again.

The receiver flats(under the chamber end of the barrel) is usually marked with the length in mms.
If this is not the case take an old credit card,or a new one if you've been spending too much, and cut it length wise to the same width as the chamber. Slide the cut piece in until you meet resistance and mark the remaining amount of the card. Measure the part that went into the chamber and that will tell you the length.
Jim

Jim, Please send me your email; @ -- 18larry01@gmail.com-- and I will forward a picture of the flats you mentioned, with a couple more of the proof marks. Thanks, Larry