doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Thinking about a Winchester 21

Depends on how bad you want it. The trouble is, there is a whole lot of people out there with a whole lot of money looking for original Model 21's!!!

Make an offer or someone else will.

Many of the best deals are the ones that you do not make. Spending 7K or there about, on a gun that will see very limited action is one of them. You are trying to think like a collector and a shooter at the same time and it does not always work. If you want a rare or high condition gun buy it and keep it pristine. If you want a good shooter pass on this one and find one who has already had most of the condition worn off by heavy use. Why pay half the price for condition unless it is pristine and you just want another closet queen?

If you could use it ten times a year over the next ten years it should still be a 90% gun. If bought that gun will live in a closet or safe. It has limited use potential, is too nice to take into nasty places or in heavy weather. You will not use it to shoot clay targets. It is a great duck gun with shells that cost three dollars a pop.

I believe it was reported right here that there were 6 model 21s at a recent vintagers event with popped ribs.
Winchester did eventually learn how to properly wet 4140 barrels for soldering, But it wasn't the day it introduced the 21 to the public.
Or, the day after. Buyer beware.

Best,
Ted

Way too high. KyJon made some pertinent comments on shooters and collectors. Shooter 21 Ducks are $4000 and less. Collector Ducks are absolutely mint, unused guns and they are $8500. There is nothing in between. Collectors have absolutely no interest in a 90% or 95% gun.

It's very easy for others to spend your money!
Finding one example of a particular firearm and then purchasing does not seem like a good way to go about finding a Duck.
Take your time, go to Gun Shows, peruse reputable on-line dealers and let your friends know what exactly you are looking for.
As with any item(collectable?), there are ranges in prices/condition and deals to be made but once you find what you are looking for, then it's time for action.
"There is nothing in between" is a myopic way to view purchasing.
There is always something in between, the job is to find the in between and this may take some time and research but it's a journey that can be interesting!-Dick

Dick, "Nothing in Between" is a judgement on the poor economics of spending $6500 or $7500 on a Duck with blue and stock finish wear, indicating much use, when a similar gun can be bought for $4000 with a little looking. These heavily used 21s for seven and eight thousand dollars are not a good buy at all. Gunbroker reserve auctions are trollers looking for a sucker. Badly refinished 21s are hard to identify in poor internet photographs.

Model 21's can be a bit heavy, if you don't buy a Skeet Model in 26" SK1 SK2 with Straight English Grip. I am very lucky! Mine was made the first month of production in 1936 ,is a one owner gun and is 95% or a bit better. It is all original, no watertable flaking at all, checkered butt still sharp, diamond wise and no appreciable wear anywhere. It tips the scale at 7LBS. 2OZS. I looked HARD for about 3 months and kissed a lot of frogs before finding this one, for $5200 a year ago at William Larkin Moore and Sons. If you don't buy a Model 21 then buy a Parker Reproduction, if you want to hunt it. Good quality for good value! Buying Parkers in "original condition" and then trying to hunt with them "as is" is MURDER, ALTERING ONE TO HUNT WITH IT, IS A CRIME! As far as the Model 21 goes it's not perfect, but it is the finest all around double shotgun ever made in America. If you don't think so, they were for all practical purposes, production line made for approx. 30 years and they have outpassed all other guns in relative value, in just more than 50 years since ending production, with just 30,000 produced. I see nice clean original VHE PARKERS for $2000-$2500 all the time, try to buy a clean early Model 21 for that. Nuff said.

I think you are mixing two different points here. People have written books about "the finest all around double shotgun ever made in America" and reached very different conclusions as to which gun fits that bill. Collectors not shooters tend to control market prices, esp. at the upper end of the market. Current market value is a function of collector demand and product availability, which may or may not be tied to quality. According to the PGCA website, Parker made 78,670 VHs.

I am not running down Model 21s, just pointing out that collector valuation is not always the same as intrinsic value.

I have both Parkers and 21s. I'd say if you are looking for something to shoot thousands of rounds through, go for the 21. If you want something a bit less stout and a bit more stylish, go for the Parker. Probably either though you could get for less money.