doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Cracking action

This is also seen on old underlever drillings.It may happen more often with 12ga, but also with 16ga.
Mike

Any gun can fail proof . I have had personal experience of two guns failing through a cracked action ,one a Horsley sidelock and a very nice Pape thumb lever 16 bore which came back in several peices. I have also seen guns with a solid joint pin , the type with a bifricated cocking dog break the pin out due to the fact there was insuficiant metal to support it . That said it had lasted for 90 years or more but the shock of modern proof was too much .I have just gotten a 100 year old plus gun back from proof that I did have major resevations about the strength of the action , fortunatly it passed .

Is it worth the risk of subjecting this gun to proof? If it is sound, in proof now and used only with light loads, is that not OK?
I have an 1870 Thomson gun, sound as a bell, I use around 7000 psi handloads, suppose it failed a proof charge and the barrel was wrecked?
Also, Salopian, did you not remark on this board that some new Purdey barrels were failing proof, and there was comment that the Proof House might be using stiffer proof loads?
Suppose I got one of those proof loads in my gun?
Just a thought.

Only once and that was on a 20 bore back action hammer gun. The gun was proofed for black powder but the barrel wall thickness was good so sent it off for nitro proof. I have sent very many similar guns for re-proof without a hitch. This one cracked at the cut off which was well radiused; bent like a banana. The barrels were fine. The gunsmith I used never liked failure so the gun was put back and the crack welded somehow; I think he called it stainless steel welding. Anyway the repair is all but invisible except on very close inspection. Gun re-submitted and passed fine. I undersatnd that such things are quite rare except on earlier breech loaders with sharp cut offs. I have no intention of ever selling the gun in question but reserve it for my own use knowing the history but there is no reason why it should ever fail in normal use. Lagopus.....

EG, why not leave "we'll enough" alone. Tha act of "proofing" the gun does not imbue it with powers it did not possess.

Thanks for your replies and the pictures. they're exactly the kind of cracks I was thinking of.
I hear a lot about good solid BP barrels going for nitro proof, maybe to sell or to perhaps to be able to shoot more widely available cartridges. The Robinson gun is in need of a spruce up, it's not a valuable gun and the only reason I saw it was I'd been asked to re black the barrels and tidy up the woodwork. When I looked under the barrel flats, I saw the damascus where the blacking had worn away and told the owner, he's happy now as they'll look lovely browned and what with a nice oil finish he said he may send it to the proof house.(perhaps he's thinking of selling it ?) I need to get the bores measured first but I can't really see any issue with this action, just wondered how something like an 1880's Scott Baker action would cope with modern charges even if the barrels were up to the job.
The flat to breech face angle is certainly a weak point but the radius instead of a sharp right angle will spread of relieve the stress, was this figured out during the development of what we see now as the modern shotgun ?
I suspect cross bolts and dolls head rib extensions could help strengthen the joint in cases like this.
The question 'why re-proof ?' Is a good one. You could easily lose an old gun by doing so, but some older barrels have been proved to be extremely strong and well capable of withstanding modern charges, definitely two schools of thought there. As was said, a re-proof could be done for piece of mind, selling point or dare I say, just to save all the hassle of loading your own and the extra cleaning involved in using black powder.
Each to his own though. Sorry if I ramble on, I find it's hard to put down in words what I'm thinking sometimes.

Sending guns to the UK for proof is silly when a couple hundred dollars worth of measuring tools will tell you and any potential buyer whether your gun is safe or questionable. British proof is only useful to Brits who want to market their guns. It is absolutely useless to U.S. collectors.

Hmmmmmm.......................

Given that some gun dealers can be as unscrupulous as the worst used car dealers, I think the uk proof laws put down a yardstick. True, you can measure your bore and wall thickness but if you have the original size stamped on the barrels, you could guess how many 'miles' are left in the gun. It's not a dear job to re proof for me as I'm in the uk anyway but I can see your point about the cost of sending a gun from the states to the proof houses here.
I wouldn't like to say that a thicker wall is a guarantee of superior strength, depends on the quality of the material and the worksmanship of the maker I suppose.

Replacement... I missed your post earlier regarding the radius at the root of the breech face. Sorry if I seemed to have repeated what you said. I reckon your view on it made more sense than mine.

Interesting point Eightbore but how many American buyers would put good money down for a gun that they know to be out of proof? I would bet that they would want to be reassured that it was otherwise it would significantly reflect in the price. Lagopus.....