doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com America's LOVE with the smallbore shotgun!?

I like a 28 ga Remington 1100s for ruffed grouse. I have 2, purchased mainly for training women and children in skeet and sporting clays, so why not take these guns into the ruffed grouse woods on my farm?
I do not think the Lord will smite me because I am not using a 28 ga J Frame Parker

No problem, buzz. No offense taken. But, it would have been much clearer if you had specified vintage subgauge guns, if indeed that was the intent.

I really don't think there is a lovefest with subgauges. I think we just recognize that sometimes a smaller gun is better suited to a task.

As an aside, I have hoorawed for years those dove shooters here that feel it necessary to show up with 3 1/4 - 1 1/8 loads (some even bring 3 3/4 - 1 1/8) to kill a fragile little bird that weighs a mere few ounces. I love to ask them to explain what they figure would be the effective load for a goose based on what they feel is necessary for a dove.

Please forgive my misinterpretation of your post, buzz. I should have known better.

All my best, Stan

Oh yeah, I do agree that the 12 is the most versatile of all the gauges, and own many more of them that all other gauges put together!

buzz,

Please check your p.m.s

Thanks

SRH

Why only America, buzz? The trends you're speaking about are true for the whole world as far as I know, and for a good reason - as old Hem said, all hunters are the same people.

And it just dawned on me that hunting is, in principle, the quest for the new. Finding one most successful routine and sticking to it works fine for agricultural society, but it is a bad survival strategy for a hunter/gatherer. Very soon you've picked up all roots and mushrooms, killed half of the game, and the other half has adapted to your pursuit, and you have to move on to the new grounds or devolop new skills and tactics - or else.

If this is true, then it is in the nature of hunters and hunting to always want something diffenent, for difference's sake. That's why a 'new' gun, ammo, breed, clothes will always sell even though the 'old' stuff works well enough - but also why small bores, vintage doubles, muzzleloaders, bows, falconing, ferreting, and so on, remain - because someone will always want to try something new, even if the 'new' is nothing but a well-forgotten 'old'.

To think of it, that's probably why the hunting instinct hasn't been evolved out of our genes yet - because this relentless quest for the new is directly associated with Invention, our best and most powerful survival tool.

Stan:

Please check your PM's...

Thanks,

No one damned the .410 bore more as a pathetic excuse for a game getter than the late Michael McIntosh. But, he also readily admitted to getting weak in the knees looking at a fine European or British "best" in .410 and would have bought a famous maker's round action O/U .410 if he would have had the scratch to do so. This is the allure of the small bores....they simply look and feel SO GOOD! Keep in mind their limitations and a lot of shooting pleasure is to be had.

In 1969, half of all people in the US were under the age of 50. In 2012 more than half of all people in the US are older than 50. When you are older, lighter is better. Further, most of us are content to shoot a brace in the afternoon and call it a day. There are no great hordes of game to be taken, and a light sub bore will perform the "brace and done" task as well as anything bigger.
On Thanksgiving day, I will visit an old haunt from my past in search of grouse and pheasant. I'll have a 12 along, either a Browning A5 that my Father bought when he made staff sargeant in 1952, or a Mossberg 500.
The place is a federal WMA and requires non-toxic shot, so either gun I use will be loaded with steel 6s. If you must use steel, use it in a 10 or a 12. I dislike the pursuit of wild birds with steel, but, I dislike sitting in the house on Thanksgiving morn, with the women folk, preparing the Thanksgiving meal, even more.

Best,
Ted

If you are interested in big bag limits you are most likely not a person who shoots either a double or a small bore. We choose to handicap our bag limits by using less than the state of the art guns and shoot shells which do not look like roman candles. Maybe sometime we all decided that watching a bird fly off not shot was not such a bad sight. Wish the dog understood it as well but a few treats extra seems to placate him.

I have long contended that the reason modern over/unders are popular in 20-bore is that a typical 20-bore O/U weights the same as a typical 12-bore side by side: that is about 6 1/2lbs.

This weight and handling dynamic clearly suits the majority of game shooters.

I think the small bore fad on the vintage gun collector scene is motivated by a number of things. For some it is willy waving in reverse - "mine is smaller than yours, which makes me better". Never mind that so many try putting 12-bore loads down 20-bores, they think they are more skilled and sporting because they use a small bore gun.

Another reason is rarity. Collectors like to have something their friends don't have. As there are fewer small bores of quality, having one is a sign of success and wealth etc in the mind of some owners.

Some people just like carrying light guns, especially as they get older.

Me? I prefer a 12-bore hammer gun to anything else. I also shoot quite well with a 16-bore hammer gun. I find I shoot 20-bore or anything smaller comparatively badly, I just don't like the handling characteristics of very light guns.

Probably a lot of truth in that, Dig.

I shoot my 32" MX-8 12 ga. more than any other gun I own. When I go to a major SC shoot that has subgauge events I also take my 20 ga. 687 SP II Sporting. Their weights are about 9# and about 6 3/4#, respectively. I find that I must shoot the 20 ga. event before I shoot the 12 ga. that day if I expect to shoot it well. I can go from the light gun to the heavier with no problem, but cannot do the reverse without finding myself getting too far out front of targets with the 20.

Even more frustrating is going to the sub-5# Yildiz .410 S x S. I have just given up trying to shoot it at subgauge events. To a bystander I look like a conductor in front of an orchestra waving his baton all around. Best I can do with it on an early season dove shoot is around 50%, and I struggle to get that high.

SRH