doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com America's LOVE with the smallbore shotgun!?

What is it with America's lovefest with the small gauge shotgun? I don't think anyone would argue with the superiority of the 12 bore in terms of harvesting game and the 12 is almost certainly more efficacious in terms of clay pigeons as compared to smallbores; hence the reason for the 12 ga for trap shooting. Now, why, if the gun is clearly advantageous for most shooting venues is there a rage in America for the sub gauges?? The subgauges are very much more expensive in terms of the cost of the gun and even the shells cost a lot more. Why then is there such demand and premium for 16, 20, 28 and .410 bore shotguns when a 12 will work just fine, if not better?? Even weight of the gun is not that much of a factor as there are light weight 12's out there. I just don't see much advantage for smaller gauge guns given the premium in cost of shells and guns. And in Europe, eg, England, the 12b is well established. Why not here? What's your opinion?

A light 12 still feels like a 12. There's nothing like a sub gauge gun in your hands when walking all day in the uplands. If it was only about effectiveness, we'd all just shoot Benelli superlight autos. And, since the Brits aren't as fond of walk up hunting as we are, that may explain their preference for 12's.

When you quit picking up fried chicken at Colonel Sanders place and started pursuing your Galliforme fare with bird dogs and shotgun you left the rational world behind.

But if you are determined to choose the most rational gun for use in an irrational pursuit probably the most effective gun on a covey of bob whites covied under a mesquite tree would be the Ithaca 10 gauge automatic that shoots 3-1/2" shells. Perhaps handloaded with 3 ounces of number eights. I bet with a five shot burst you could ground swat the whole covey. The weight wouldn't matter if you were leaning out the pickup window as you wouldn't have had to carry it anyway.

But I enjoy hunting behind a couple of my Brittanys, perhaps with a 5lb-5oz 28 gauge Parker Reproduction, double triggers, straight grip splinter forend. The shells are so small I can put an entire box in one pants pocket, 3/4 oz. of #8s. The dogs are on point. I walk in and flush the covey and manage to down a bird. One of the Brittanys retrieves it to hand. Much prettier picture and more satisfying experience I believe.

Hunting with a twelve is somewhere in between I think.

As the years pass it is not so much what you take but how you take it that makes the day.

As a start, you've made a couple statements in your opener that I take exception to..... no, they are just flat wrong. Those are:

(1) That the cost of the a subgauge gun is more than a 12 gauge. This is true only in the case of vintage double guns. New over/unders are no higher in 20 gauge than in 12. New autoloaders and pumps are comparable in price for 12s vs. subgauges. And face it, most of America's shooters/hunters don't give a rip for what we like, vintage doubles. So, most of America can buy a new subgauge gun for the same cost as a 12.

(2) That all subgauge shells cost more. C'mon buzz, where do you shop for shells? Twenty gauge loads have been the same cost as 12s for so long I can hardly remember when they weren't. I'd agree that 16s, 28s and .410s are higher. But, you included 20s in the mix, and that is just not accurate.

(3) This one is just my opinion, but there are venues where the 12 gauge is NOT "clearly advantageous".

I would pose another, but related, question. Why is it that 12 gauge proponents feel so threatened by the "lesser" gauges, and feel that they must, from time to time, revisit this age-old debate and try to discredit "sub-gauges"?

SRH

Try lugging a 12 gauge up in the mountains of Va for Grouse for about 5 hours. You will quickly see the advantage of a lighter gun with smaller grip and trimmer barrels. One box of those little 20 gauge shells will most likely last you a season (perhaps 2).

I don't think Buzz is trying to discredit 12 bores but is questioning the premium associated with subgauge vintage guns. One reason is supply - back in the day (at least in the UK), men shot 12 bores and boys and woman shot subgauges, so as a result, there are a lot fewer subgauge guns made. Today, that translates into higher prices for Americans who want vintage Brit guns but don't want to tote 12 gauges around after quail and grouse.

Pick up a 12 ga. Sterlingworth and then pick up a 16 or 20 gauge - the former weighs nearly a pound more and feels like a lot more "in the hand".

If you could only own ONE shotgun a 12 bore double with 2 3/4" chambers and 26" to 30" barrels would be hard to beat. Nuff said.
Jim

Oh, gosh Stan. I guess you misinterpreted my motive for the question. I was simply asking for opinions. I for one, have guns in all the subgauges and use them in regular fashion. I must admit, I do like a12 at times.......and I bet you do too as your previous posts and threads reveal you are quite the duck hunter. Or am I wrong?? No reason to take such offense to a simple question, IMHO. Oh, btw in a previous thread which asked the question: if you could only have one gun, I chose a Browning Superposed 20b. So, there you go.