doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Opinions on an 1890 Westley Richards 12/16

I should start off by noting that I've always wanted a Westley Richards boxlock. While arguably not as elegant as a sidelock, I love that they worked this action until perfected, filing numerous patents along the way. As a further note, I have no absolutely no experience with vintage guns other than admiring them and subscribing to the DGJ a few years ago.

So yesterday I found this gun and bought it without considering it very long as it was (relatively!) inexpensive. It's an 1890 vintage Westley Richards - it has two sets of barrels, the original 12 gauge set numbered to the gun, and a second set of 16 gauge barrels whose serial number date them to 1900.

It has several warts - the most obvious is a horrible stock extension of black rubber with a second addition of a pachmeyer recoil pad. I have short arms and think this can be solved with a leather covered pad. The wood is quite striking and I'm guessing that it was replaced, but years ago as it has a nice patina - the seller felt it was original, but it seems a bit too fancy to me.

Moving on, the original barrel 12 gauge set is 28" and marked "W.R. C.M Steel", I'm unable to make out choke or proofing, and they are VERY open, my choke gauge can be fully inserted into both barrels! It is my belief that the gun came with a beavertail as there are markings extending on the underside of the barrels. The gun now has a splinter, the story is that the beavertail cracked and the splinter was made from the original. Should the forend be serialized to the gun, this forend has no serial number? The 12 gauge barrels will fit the gun, but not the forend, so I couldn't check for ejector function.

The 28" 16 gauge barrels (from 1900) are nitro proofed for 1 oz; are marked "special steel". The forend fits them perfectly and the ejectors and well-timed and strong. They are choked extra full and extra full - can't even insert my choke gauge!

I don't have a bore gauge, but was told that both sets are now 3". I don't have a gauge to measure wall thickness, so that is also an unknown.

I plan to use the gun with both sets of barrels, if they are usable, so I'm looking to get several jobs done.

1. Determine if both sets of barrels can be used and with what shotshells.

2. Get the forend/barrel fit corrected so that both barrels will mount properly.

3. A thorough cleaning by an expert.

4. Remove the extensions and add a proper leather covered recoil pad. Any other options to consider? I don't want to restock the gun entirely...

Anything else I should consider? Any recommendations for the jobs? Thanks for looking!

[img]<div style="width:480px;text-align:right;"><embed width="480" height="360" src="http://pic2.pbsrc.com/flash/rss_slideshow.swf" flashvars="rssFeed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeed714.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww144%2Fswoobie_photobucket%2FWestley%2520Richards%2Ffeed.rss" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" /><a href="javascript:void(0);" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_geturs.gif" style="border:none;" /></a><a href="http://s714.beta.photobucket.com/user/swoobie_photobucket/library/Westley%20Richards" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_viewall.gif" style="border:none;" alt="swoobie_photobucket&#039;s Westley Richards album on Photobucket" /></a></div>[/img]

I've not yet figured out how to load pictures individually, but believe the link will take you to a photobook album.

Helping out swoobie

Y'all look here

http://s714.beta.photobucket.com/user/sw...296378479793763

Here is a teaser

Thank you, SkeetTX!

I'm wondering why the barrels are 28"! Do you think they may be cut?

Dang - nice looking gun.

Wood on the butt looks original, but the checkering all around is recut. On the forend, I think WR stamped the serial number in the wood sometimes. A beavertail from that era would be odd.

Looks like the 16g bbls have been hot blued, maybe the 12s, too. Action may have been recolored.

I would have a good gunsmith take a long look at it.

OWD

28in barrels would not be strange. No choke is though, when it says choke on both barrels. They could have been opened up at one time.

I highly doubt that gun would have came with such a forearm. I would bet those markings you talk of on the barrels are not from a beaver tail forearm at all but rather from a leather handgaurd. The handgaurd has a metal piece of spring steel in it that keeps it tight on the barrels. Taking it off and on over the years would result in a wear pattern such as you speak of.

Wburns and Lee - not sure of the original barrel length, although if they have been cut, it was a remarkably good job. I don't know why the chokes would be so open though, unless someone opened them up after delivery...

I do think you're right about the handguard, I happen to have one (never used) and it fit right into the slight marks on the 12 gauge barrels. That's good to know!

There's nothing stamped in the wood of the forend, and the lines are very sharp and precise for 120 year old gun.

Pardon the many questions, but how would I know a "hot blue" from a reblack? The Westley Richards name and London address are still quite legible on both barrels, but obviously not as sharp as they were originally.

I doubt it has been hotblued. Your barrels would probably be loose from a hot blue. Hot blueing will losen the soldered joints most of the time. You can attain a fairly shiney blue based on how fine a sanding job is done on the barrels prior to blackening. If only sanded down with 400 grit or such you will get a flatter looking finish. If you take it down to 600-800 grit you get a more richer shiny finish.

The forearm could be a replacement, but as I said it is likely similar to what it came with IMO. The shape of the tip does look a little odd to me.

Without seeing the gun it is only possible to pass an opinion ,but looking at the pictures and from your text I make the following comments .
There are only one set of proof stamps on the action flats , as there are marks from different periods on the barrels this suggests that one set of barrels is from another gun,you also say the forend wont fit one set so this adds weight to the argument . I would also surmise that it has been re hardened at some point Westleys forend are normally blacked. Agree that the marks on the barrel were probably caused by a hand guard . You say the chambers are 3" on both sets ? This would be most unusual on a gun of its type and vintage and extremely rare on a 16 bore and as it is marked for 1oz then they have certainly been deepened from 2&1/2" as I suspect the 12 Bore was as well .
Please have the barrel checked most carefully be fore you attempt to us this gun . I for one certainly hope that every is OK and that it can be made to function correctly as it appears to be a nice enough gun .

It looks like the bottom ribs on the 16g bbls have been drilled and the holes filled in.

The holes usually indicate a hot blueing.

Bbls are a real flat black, too.

OWD