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Forums10
Topics39,491
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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 116
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 116 |
Without seeing the gun it is only possible to pass an opinion ,but looking at the pictures and from your text I make the following comments .
There are only one set of proof stamps on the action flats , as there are marks from different periods on the barrels this suggests that one set of barrels is from another gun,you also say the forend wont fit one set so this adds weight to the argument. Yes, that is correct. The 12 gauge barrels are original, the 16 gauge barrels have a serial number indicating 1900 manufacture date. The kicker is that the barrels that fit the forend are the 16 gauge set.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 116
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 116 |
I doubt it has been hotblued. Your barrels would probably be loose from a hot blue. Hot blueing will losen the soldered joints most of the time. You can attain a fairly shiney blue based on how fine a sanding job is done on the barrels prior to blackening. If only sanded down with 400 grit or such you will get a flatter looking finish. If you take it down to 600-800 grit you get a more richer shiny finish. It looks like the bottom ribs on the 16g bbls have been drilled and the holes filled in.
The holes usually indicate a hot blueing.
Bbls are a real flat black, too.
OWD The barrels do have a flat black appearance, however, both sets have a real nice ring and seem to be very solidly together!
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,737
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,737 |
Hello, and welcome to the site. There are a good number of experts contributing on the forums here so you're in good hands. Although I am most assuredly not in that good company I also happen to have a Westley Richards from 1890. The 28" barrels are definitely uncut. They are also damascus, which makes me wonder if your original tubes are as well but were "re-blacked" somewhere down the road.
All engraving I can see in your photos is a match with mine. I have next to no case colors, and I can't make out if yours are original or done at a later date, but I lean towards the latter. However,I should mention that I am almost the farthest away from being one who would know if this were true simply from photographs.
Although your photos were mostly good I would have liked to have seen a good shot or two of your trigger guard, if only out of curiosity. A charming bit of engraving on these old Westleys is the inclusion of a dog (if it's a shotgun)on the trigger guard, and I'd like to comare. Also, further down shows the serial #. Which leads me to ask.....
...How do you know your gun is from 1890? Did you look up the serial # or did the seller tell you. Again, just curious.
As I mentioned, all engraving I can see is perfectly matched to mine, if that's any indication. But the aforementioned case color caveat applies here as well.
However, regarding your comment about the wood being too nice to be original I think I can say without hesitation that the stock is original to the gun, if only based on the wood on my gun, which is also extraordinary. Also obvious is the wood to metal fit on yours. But I also agree with OWD's comment that the checkering has been spruced up in more recent years.
I also would agree with gunman's comment regarding the second set of barrels as being from another gun.
And I would also agree with OWD's comment about having a good gunsmith who knows vintage guns to look over yours.
Last edited by Krakow Kid; 11/25/12 02:20 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 116
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 116 |
The 28" barrels are definitely uncut. They are also damascus, which makes me wonder if your original tubes are as well but were "re-blacked" somewhere down the road. I had wondered that as well, although they are marked "W.R. C.M Steel". The barrel maker's initials look to be J.T. I used the Westley Richards website http://www.westleyrichards.co.uk/GUNS/Gun-Histories_2/History-Authentication to date the gun, it's 146xx. The 16 gauge barrels are 161xx, which date to 1900 - and are marked "Special Steel". The trigger guard does indeed have a fine depiction of a long haired retriever? I'll try to get you a picture. Currently I live in a no man's land for reputable vintage gun shops - the North West corner of Arkansas. If anyone knows a good gunsmith in the area, please let me know. I have no intentions of firing anything until the gun is thoroughly checked over.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,543 Likes: 102
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,543 Likes: 102 |
Worth checking to see if the strikers line up with the centers on the 12 bore set . Barrels may fit the action but may not be usable .
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,758 Likes: 460 |
Champlin Arms in Enid, OK should be able to evaluate the gun http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx?tabid=28
Last edited by Drew Hause; 11/25/12 04:20 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72 |
I second Champlin in Enid, JJ is an excellent gunsmith who knows actions well. He is also not afraid to tell you a job could be done, but would not be worth doing
Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 57
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 57 |
I have the same model from 1887 except with a semi-pistol grip and a gold monogram circle on the tip of the grip.Exceptional wood on both guns which seems to be the norm from the photos I've seen of this model. The "long haired setter" on my trigger guard is the best I've seen although mine looks more like a golden.In the WR 1912 catalog this model sold for 63 guineas(pounds). The average laborer in London made ~3 pounds per year in the 1880'S.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 390 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 390 Likes: 2 |
I have the same model from 1887 except with a semi-pistol grip and a gold monogram circle on the tip of the grip.Exceptional wood on both guns which seems to be the norm from the photos I've seen of this model. The "long haired setter" on my trigger guard is the best I've seen although mine looks more like a golden.In the WR 1912 catalog this model sold for 63 guineas(pounds). The average laborer in London made ~3 pounds per year in the 1880'S. FWIW, I think average laborer wage in England in 1881 was approx 56 pounds. http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~alan/family/N-Money.html#1850
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 116
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 116 |
I appreciate the suggestion of Champlin. Heard good things about them - but they are nearly a 4 hour drive away.
I've got trips coming up to Kansas City and Dallas. Any suggestions in those two areas?
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